POSE Running anyone??

Discussion in 'Barefoot & Minimalist Running' started by SaraLord, Mar 3, 2011.

  1. mokaman

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    Romanov keeps referring to

    Romanov keeps referring to "normal running" as in shoe running, note this means barefoot running is not normal running. His take is that it is a drill not regular running, also note - how to learn to start to barefoot with a jump rope and weights. They were way off on the running surfaces too...back then Pose was behind on barefoot running just like the shoe companies etc. They changed over time like everyone else...I think they had hoped to market a Pose shoe but it never came about.

    BTW i'm not against the Pose coaching....I've posted on their site a little and had their coaches check my running video too. They have some good things but like most advice you have to see if its something you relate to or not.
     
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  2. zapmamak

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    I've never given a rat's @ss

    I've never given a rat's @ss about gurus and followings and the "us vs. them" mentality. Hell, I still have yet to read Born To Run. Call me ignorant if you want, but if it works for me then HOORAY! If it doesn't, then f*ck it. Sorry to be so blunt, but I think that getting all caught up in the details and politics of sports dogma is ridiculous. A few years back I re-learned to run so I could go more than a couple miles without my knee killing me. I met a guy who taught me how to run so I wouldn't land on my heels. I had no idea that what he was teaching me was "POSE". POSE is what led me to barefoot. Barefoot is my newfound passion now, but if it weren't for re-educating myself I would never have found my "fiyah!" Take what you can from pose and use it to further your barefoot running. Simple enough.
     

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  3. dodgy

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    I don't think that there is a

    I don't think that there is a guru or us & them mentality...I've never seen that mentioned anywhere but here. We're all just trying to learn to run injury-free & have fun. What we have on our feet is just a means to that end.



    BTW Pose shoes??? I think that was just a dream mokaman :)
     
  4. Nyal

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    Are people who use the POSE

    Are people who use the POSE system called POSErs?
     
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  5. Barefoot TJ

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    I've never given a rat's @ss

    I've never given a rat's @ss about gurus ...

    ...except for the Master of All Gurus, Barefoot Ken Bob. ;-) Loves him!



    Nyal, you always crack me up.
     
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  6. dodgy

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    Nyal wrote:Are people who



    Only to our backs as we go past ya ;)



    Boy, some of the drills we do certainly don't look like we're posing tho', sheesh!



    Also, don't forget that Jackie (in the below vid) who a lot of people hold up as being the epitome of BF running is a Pose coach:



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CERyUWwWkOc
     
  7. Paleo

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    When they stop wrting "Dr.

    When they stop wrting "Dr. Romanov" everywhere, that's the day I'll believe that the "guru-worship" has disappeared from Pose.

    Point of fact: only medical doctors in the U.S. use their titles. Everything else is either pretentious or a sign of insecurity (usually both at the same time).

    There is also something dogmatic in many of the statements on the website. It makes you feel like, if you are not running POSE®©™, then you are not running correctly.



    I feel a little bad being so judgmental, since I did learn a lot from the exercises. But, the clubbiness and the hero-worship leads me to my medicine cabinet.

    Cheers

    Paleo



    Full disclosure: I have a Ph.D. and I write Dr. Paleo on my business card (I'd prefer not to). But, I live and work in Germany, where this is expected. In fact, the Dr. becomes officially part of your name if you choose to register it--as most do.
     
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  8. dodgy

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    So, let me get this straight

    So, let me get this straight - the gist of the comments here seem to be that Pose is good & has a lot to offer...but it's obviously a scary, evil practice because the guy who came up with the method calls himself doctor?



    BTW when Christopher McDougall comes to London he regularly consults Lee Saxby. Let's see what the acclaimed champion of BF running says about Lee:



    But every time I run into Lee Saxby, I learn something that makes my head snap up. Lee began his career as a physical therapist with a waiting room full of limping runners. He knew how to get them back on the roads, but the best he could offer was temporary fixes: he could ease their pain but not prevent their injuries. Then he got wind of some Soviet emigre named Dr. Nicholas Romanov who claimed to have a revolutionary technique called “The POSE Method” which would end running injuries forever. Saxby knew it had to be a scam, but with nothing better to offer his patients, he decided to check it out. He was right to be concerned; what he learned threatened to ruin his career. What, no more deep tissue massages, or hamstring stretches, or cross-training? No more orthotics, or shoe referrals, or months of after-care? Where’s the profit in making people unbreakable?

    But rather than resist, Saxby signed on; he blended his teaching skills as a physical rehab specialist with Romanov’s breakthroughs in movement research and became Europe’s top POSE teacher. I’ve visited him twice over the past few years while I’ve been in London, and both times he crisply and unerringly zeroed in on little hitches in my stride. The effect was always startling: I instantly felt lighter, stronger and quicker, and the upgrade became an easy and permanent part of my runs.



    But if the "clubbishness" & respect for NR put you off, you stick dogmatically to bare feet...
     
  9. Barefoot Burt

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    I got the book, the dvd,

    I got the book, the dvd, etc.. Barefoot running does "intuitively" what Pose teches in a very difficult, scientific manner.
     
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  10. dodgy

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    Hmmm. I'm really not trying

    Hmmm. I'm really not trying to be awkward here, but I turned to Pose as bare feet didn't intuitively teach me to run properly. It was a fantastic experience which I will return to shortly, hopefully, & it taught me to run softly & land on my forefoot - but never felt easy. Presumably you turned to Pose for the same reason?

    And if BF is so obviously intuitive, why does every BF website have a "how to run" section? I learned a lot from reading Ken Bob...but is was by far from instinctive.

    Don't get me wrong - I'm a big BF advocate...but if you're struggling with form, give Pose a try. In bare feet, whatever :)
     
  11. Barefoot Burt

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    strange... no I bought the

    strange... no I bought the pose DVD almost 3 years ago, way before becoming a barefooter. The Pose book is filled with great theories and it does condone barefoot running and I learned from it, so I dig it. However I struggled with the implementing the theories for a few years and didn't race at all. Since becoming a barefoot runner within the last year, I have run a marathon, half marathon and 10 k barefoot and held 50- 70 mile weeks for months at a time and had more fun than I ever did before. Barefoot is the way to run for me. I have learned more in the last yer than I did the previous 4 years of running shod.

    I think everyone is a bit different when it comes to the intuitive aspect, we all learn differently. For me barefoot running was very natural where as shoes was not. I am a hands on "feeling" type of guy... reading a book to learn how to do something isn't my preferred method. I DO think Pose can be a bit tedious and perhaps injurous..but it's well founded.I dont mean to badmouth Pose but I do think the best way to learn to run is by running barefoot. Live and let live.
     
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  12. Paleo

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    I'll be clear about what I

    I'll be clear about what I think about POSE.

    The exercises are good. The idea of the pull is good. It is a good thing that Nicholas Romanov has written down some of the basic principles of good running form.

    But, several aspects of his presention (both of the method and of the man) that are annoying (not more, not less). Maybe, I am annoyed because I think he has some good ideas, but presents them so annoyingly.

    He tries to sell the method as though he invented it, and as if before him no one was running correctly. But, 3/4 of what he says is common sense--a bit over-analysed--but common sense. Nevertheless, he registers a trademark. He is a businessman, he wants to sell you his seminars and his books. There is nothing wrong with that (I am an entrepreneur, myself). But, it is too pushy. With a different marketing tack, he'd likely be way more successful.

    His discussion of gravity is, physically speaking, complete hogwash. I have shown his statements to physicists, who giggle or roll their eyes. If what Romanov says were true, you could run without exerting yourself. But, there is no such thing as a free lunch, or rather take a look at Newton's laws if you prefer. If he said it were a matter of "perception", I could go along with it. But, he doesn't. He says that it's real. Every runner must stay over his/her center of gravity, and thus required to lean/fall in proportion with his/her speed. Anything else will result in scraped elbows, noses and knees. I did a lot of measurements (heart rate and the lot) when learning the method. I detected not one iota increase in efficiency. I felt better, but I didn't get faster.

    In the time that I spent reading his site and book (a couple of years ago), I found it a major turn off that I was constantly being asked to buy into the Church of Romanov. This impression has been confirmed both in this forum and by others I have talked to. And, everyone there writes "Dr. Romanov" as if he were some kind of deity, which is annoying (as I said, not more, and not less than that).

    I give credit where credit is due (see paragraphs 2-3), but I will also criticize where criticism is due. If you read my early post in this thread you will find the same sentiments phrased less directly. I have mixed opinion of the man and the method. I see him as contributing to minimalist running. But, I wish his style were different, because he discredits himself. I long wondered whether he is just not able to express himself due to his non-native English. But, the statements are consistant, so I doubt that is the issue.

    Okay enough said.

    Cheers

    Paleo
     
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  13. Barefoot Burt

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    I dont want to bad mouth Pose

    I dont want to bad mouth Pose as it's hard for me to separate it from barefoot running at this point as it lead me to here...so it's all good in da hood as far as I am concerened
     
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  14. dodgy

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    Paleo a. He did invent

    Paleo



    a. He did invent Pose. No one had come up with the gravity based model of running before. Even if you think it's "hogwash", it's a pretty radical concept. If it's such common sense, why do some people struggle with it so much?



    b. I think you mentioned that you like the "pull" concept. So can you explain how, if you're not pushing off, but lifting your foot, you move forward without the gravity model?



    c. Church of Pose? Lol. Can you elaborate? I've been on the Posetech forum for 6 months now & no one has suggested I buy anything. The advice from the coaches is freely & generously given.
     
  15. Barefoot TJ

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    Alright everyone, let's be

    Alright everyone, let's be nice. Different strokes.
     
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  16. Nyal

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    Barefoot TJ wrote:Alright



    I prefer to egg them on.



    LAWS OF PHYSICS!!!!!! CULT!!!!!!!! BARNABY JONES!!!!!!
     
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  17. Barefoot TJ

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    I'm gonna egg you on! 

    I'm gonna egg you on! Where's my eggs?!
     
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  18. Neil_D

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    Hi Dodgy,I am inclined to

    Hi Dodgy,

    I am inclined to agree with you.

    If all this barefoot running is so easy then we would not have hundreds of websites dealing with the myriad number of injuries that people get while making the transition.

    Pose helped me enormously by explaining in a methodical and easy manner all the aspects of what you are trying to achieve. All this 'cult' stuff that people keep spouting off about is baloney, it either helps you or it doesn't.

    Moving your centre of gravity in front of you will aid in moving you forward, I am an engineer so I should know about things like this. By having a slight lean you are moving more of your centre of mass in the direction you want to go than if you just lift your leg up as in standard heel strike running.

    I'm not going to get hung up about whether or not Romanov calls himself Dr or not as I think that is meaningless. I have had dealings with many doctors over the years and not all their advice is would be very accurate.

    All I would say is, if you are struggling with transitioning to barefoot running then Pose may help you as it did with me.



    Neil
     
  19. Barefoot TJ

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    I think running barefoot

    I think running barefoot comes naturally to those who have "always" lived and run barefoot. We, as a so-called western civilized society, robbed ourselves of this natural ability from the moment we started walking around in shoes.
     
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  20. Neil_D

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    Hi TJ,I was running just the

    Hi TJ,

    I was running just the other day (on the last of our hot days before winter) when I saw 2 young children running around barefoot on the brick pavement. They were sprinting around in perfect barefoot style so it seems like we know how to run then we manage to unlearn how to run as soon as we buy running shoes.

    So it must be the running shoes that are to blame, we change our style to suit the shoe. Wouldn't it have been interesting, in a parallel universe, to see what would have happened if Vibram Five Fingers had been the revolutionary shoe rather than the Nike waffle heel.

    Neil
     

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