Paleo again faster

[jschwab]

Actually, Paleos are not so

Actually, Paleos are not so big on fruit, Abide. Most modern fruit has been bred to be way sweeter than what caveman ancestors would have eaten and ripe fruit would have only been available for short times in the year. Many feel fructose is fructose whether it comes in the form of soda with HFCS or in an apple. I eat fruit but I understand this mentality - hubby has not eaten fruit for a few years. And he eats no veggies, either, and also no nuts. Someone is going to have a problem with anything, because we are all very different and have different imbalances and deficiencies in our diets to make up for. That's my take on why there is no perfect diet that works for everybody. I used to look for a universal diet, especially with 5 people in my immediate family and finally accepted we are all unique and have different needs. None of us really eat grains, but two of us eat dairy because I noticed two of our kids did better with it than without it. I have learned that just being able to say "that doesn't agree with me" is a good start to health. Simply recognizing what different foods' effects are is a good skill to have.

 

[fetish4running]

I had to jump in here.  You

I had to jump in here. You guys got my husband and me intrigued so we both read the book and started this week. I cannot begin to tell you how incredibly much I miss bread. I'm one of those people who could live on cereal and bread.

 

[Blind Boy]

I'm curious about the

I'm curious about the inclusion of dairy in the Paleo diet. What's the reasoning here? To me it seems unlikely that paleo man had domesticated animals, or at least animals that were tame enough to allow a human to milk them. I haven't really done any research on this though.

 

[NakedSoleNate]

 Everybody's body is

Everybody's body is different...I'm a big fan of finding what works for you, listening to your body, and following accordingly....sometimes, listening to your body means listening to your "desires" as well...a life without chocolate or beer is not a life for me ;-)...If paleo, vegan, vegitaritan, high carb, low carb, no carb, only carb, only meat, only cooked, only raw....whatever works for you, then that's all that is important .

I've never been a fan of "book" diets, I do however, acknowledge that they can be helpful for many people....but one size does not fit all ;-)...IMHO

 

[Matt]

My understanding is that

My understanding is that Paleos aren't a big fan of dairy, either. But I think the degree of badness varies. My understanding (just pulling this out of my ....)

From bad to not so bad --

hfcs

sugar

refined carbs

vegetable oils

grains (even whole grains)

dairy

legumes



All the rest is good. Non-starchy veggies, meat, eggs, nuts, and fruit.

 

[Abide]

Jschwab so what does he eat?

Jschwab so what does he eat? That's interesting and I have not heard that about fruit.

I sometimes think there is more to just listening to your bodies desires. I am a chronic overeater, if I gave into all of my cravings I would eat a lot of (not necesarily in this order) Pizza, nachos, salt and vinegar chips, beer, some more pizza etc.. everyday. Problem is all of these make me feel like crap, with the exception of beer. I enjoy eating all types of food but for some reason I am drawn to crap? Maybe because is it is engineered to taste good? Or maybe I'm not very good at listening to my body?

Then there are also the environmental considerations of a diet too. Which do influence my eating habits.

No I don't think dairy is acceptable to a lot of paleos, but a lot make the exception that is why I said what I did.

 

[NakedSoleNate]

Abide wrote: Problem

Problem is all of these make me feel like crap, with the exception of beer.

This is what I'm talking about, if it makes you feel bad, AND you still eat it/do it, then you aren't listening to your body, only the desires of your mind/emotions...our bodies, when we listen to them without letting our mind get involved to "justify" what we are eating, tell us what it actually needs for optimal performance...most cravings are the stuff of the mind, not of the body....or, understanding the message of the craving...often, if you crave sweet, you are actually wanting protein, if you crave breads, usually you need some fats...if a craving isn't emotionally based, it has it's basis in the phsycial body, but how you satiate those cravings (candy for protein) etc...is a choice....I might have some of that mixed up, I'd have to look it up to be sure, but cravings are a sign that you are lacking something, and there is a "healthier" way to actually deal with it.

Just like running barefoot...your mind wants to go faster, further, your feet are not ready for it....you do it anyway, you get hurt...if you listen to your feet, instead of your desire to run more, you do fine...."comfort foods" are the "shoes" of diets ;-)...sometimes, on occasion, those shoes might be nescisary or just something you want to do, but to use them as the default, and only going barefoot a little bit, you hurt yourself, and don't develop the "form" for effortless and enjoyable running.....

The problem is, in our society in particular, we live sooo much in our minds, and not enough in our bodies, that we have divorced ourselves from being able to listen to the system as a whole...and we don't have the nutritional knowledge to understand what our bodies are trying to tell us.

 

[Abide]

I understand your point now.

I understand your point now. Yes I do need to get better at assessing things as a whole. I'll look into the cravings theory later today.

On an unrelated note I really like Michael Pollan's eating philoshophy because it is focused on the relationships of real/whole foods. We try to stick to the 5 ingredients or less theory. So almost everything we eat is made from scratch.

 

[startingupagain]

Blind Boy wrote:I'm curious

I'm curious about the inclusion of dairy in the Paleo diet. What's the reasoning here? To me it seems unlikely that paleo man had domesticated animals, or at least animals that were tame enough to allow a human to milk them. I haven't really done any research on this though.

As others have said, not all paleos allow dairy. I do. Here's my reasoning (borrowed from a lot of others)

Paleo is not about eating like a caveman, but instead about not "fighting nature" (or fighting evolution).

If you will forgive some teleological reasoning as a shortcut for longer evolutionary arguments, grains don't want to be eaten. They would rather either be left alone to germinate on the ground or pass through an animal's digestive system, and they've developed defenses to allow this to happen. We can digest grains only by overcoming these defenses through some form of processing such as milling or cooking. (To actually get oil or sweetener out of a grain like soybeans or corn requires a frickin science lab.) So eating grains or grain oils or sweeteners is "fighting nature," while, say, eating meat is not. Meat is perfectly digestible raw. Same with fruit.

But dairy is also perfectly digestible raw. Milk (again to use teleological reasoning as a shortcut) wants to be digested, at least by an animal relatively closely related to us. You don't have to overcome any defenses.

 

[saypay45]

Thanks for all the help

Thanks for all the help startup. I have taken the plunge as well and am doing paleo + dairy for the past week. I feel incredible.

My reason for including the dairy is that I still do a fair bit of strength training along with my running, and the book (and the old bodybuilder in me) tells me that keeping dairy is a good way to maintain muscle mass.

Anyone have any tips for getting your family on board? My wife is interested in the diet, but not sure that she can give up some of the foods that she loves. I am thinking about talking about the weight loss and health aspects of the diet to bring her over. Right now I've been cooking Paleo for dinner, and letting her do lunch and breakfast on her own.

 

[Blind Boy]

I see. Personally, I'm way

I see. Personally, I'm way too interested in experimenting with various foods to stick to one diet. Doesn't mean I won't try them out though.

 

[jschwab]

I think that you eat so much

I think that you eat so much because you personally cannot get the nutrition you need from those sources. I used to be like that - I would eat pasta or bread and never feel satisfied because the food I was eating was just not nutrient-dense enough, partially because of the kind of food I was eating (grains are pretty crap at providing alot of what the body needs), partially because of the quality of the food I was eating. Meat was nutrient-dense enough to make a huge difference right away when we started eating it. I gave up alot of things later and tweaked and tweaked my diet, but NOTHING ever did as much for my health as simply making 50's style meals every night - meat, starch, veggie.

Some people also talk about the opioids in certain foods that literally make them addictive. Grains are like that for me and when I have eaten them after mostly giving them up it's been really clear they make me feel drunk. They ferment in the gut which is why for some people alcohol addiction can only be dealt with on a low-grain diet (my FIL, for example). The beer is already fermented so it is easier for you to digest is my guess (it's "predigested").

Dairy is not really Paleo at all, although some say they are PaleoNu or Paleo + Dairy. Just like I am Paleo + potatoes. It's all good. I was Paleo + dairy until it made me feel like puking - I was so loathe to give it up!

 

[jschwab]

"Jschwab so what does he eat?

"Jschwab so what does he eat? That's interesting and I have not heard that about fruit. "



I forgot to answer this - meat, including organ meats, sauerkraut and pickles he ferments himself. And.... well, that's about it. I am trying to get him to branch out a bit. After no carbs for a few years, he's still prediabetic, so the question is where to go from here. I want him to eat more carbs and run on a regular basis. He's the kind that can whip out a barefoot 8 miler on no training, but I think the key to being more healthy is to run regularly and hopefully it will bring his blood sugar down. He's only got about 5 pounds at most to spare, so losing weight is not really where it's at.

 

[Matt]

For me, grains and sugar are

For me, grains and sugar are very addictive. If I have a little bit, my cravings really kick in.

I think a good test is this -- Does eating a food make you feel satisfied and energized? Or does it make you hungry and off-balance. Sugar and grains mess with me too much.

 

[fetish4running]

Would some of you share what

Would some of you share what you eat in a typical day? How do you keep meat on hand for 2-3 meals at a time? I'm not a big veggie lover, so I'm attacking the fruit bowl, but that's not very satisfying! I'm really curious what you all eat in a given day/week and are you going broke buying meat all the time?? I can only eat so many salads and then I'm sick of them!

 

[startingupagain]

Here's what I ate today.  (or

Here's what I ate today. (or will eat for dinner since that hasn't happened yet. This is pretty typical).



Breakfast: 3 eggs (good kind from Trader Joe's or from a local farmer) scrambled in a good sized pat of Irish butter. Coffee with organic 1/2 and 1/2.

Lunch: (at work cafeteria). Beef Brisket with no extra bbq sauce (bbq sauce itself was nonpaleo but there wasn't that much). Sauteed squash and onions (they said they were sauteed in butter, not vegetable oil) and mashed potatoes with butter, no gravy.

Dinner: Usually something like steak and salad (I try to make dinner and breakfast relatively carb free). Or chicken, pork or fish. But usually a meat or fish along with either a salad or a green vegetable.

Snacks: Roasted almonds (too many), cheese, maybe a beef stick now and then.



As for cost, yeah I spend a lot on meat, especially because I try to buy free range chickens, pastured pork, grass fed beef, and wild caught fish. And grass fed butter and local eggs.

 

[saypay45]

fetish, I'm still getting

fetish, I'm still getting used to this, so I'm sure I'll bel tweaking my diet as I go. And I'm not all there yet on eating meat for breakfast. Here's what I ate yesterday.



Breakfast: Two scrambled eggs, Banana with sunbutter (like peanut butter, but made with sunflower seeds and flaxseeds...surprisingly good), glass of milk

Lunch: Leftovers from yesterday's dinner, Mexican Hash (my recipe) which is ground beef, chicken, jalapenos, red onions, tomatoes, cilantro, and avocado

Dinner: Grilled steak with asparagus, glass of milk

Snack: Homemade guacamole with raw carrots, broccoli, and cauliflower

 

[Abide]

Dude that is the oddest

Dude that is the oddest guacamole I have ever heard of, it does sound good though, what's your recipe? Yes sunbutter is the bomb.

Jschwab that sounds.... so where has the hubby been, I haven't seen him around here in a while?

 

[Abide]

Nevermind I guess you dip

Nevermind I guess you dip your veggies in your guac. Sorry just got back from doing a wod and the brain isn;t working yet.

 

[jschwab]

He's gone all adolescent on

He's gone all adolescent on me and is helping someone code a text adventure game. I think I nagged him too much about running....

I go superpaleo and only eat once a day most days and fast the rest of the time.



Typical weekday meal (best I can get near my office):

2 hot sausages

1 cheesesteak with no cheese and no bun

little salad

either french fries with mayo on them or potato chips (I have to have potatoes or I cannot get my workouts in)

fruit salad

banana

That is all I eat until the next day at the same time.



At home, I often have eggs (we have our own chickens), almond meal pancakes (made with more eggs), sausage or , sauerkraut, pickles, maybe veggies if we think of it, fruit or dried fruit, the ever-present chips or fried potatoes,, sorbet, cook with ghee instead of butter or lard or tallow, chicken wings, steak, hamburgers, sometimes nuts for dessert, etc., salad. I also eat a teaspoon of raw liver every night.

We do spend alot on meat, but we save on prescriptions. If hubby's pancreas fails, insulin costs alot more than steak. Our butcher and the farmers we buy from give us volume deals and save stuff for us.