Newton Natural Running Panel 2010

Barefoot TJ

Barefoot TJ

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Mar 5, 2010
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#1
Newton Natural Running Panel 2010



PB brought this series of videos to my attention, and I want to share them with you here.


Panel discussion on natural running with Dr. Irene Davis PhD, PT (Director of the Running Injury Lab, University of Delaware), Dr. Mark Cucuzzella MD (Associate Professor, University of West Virginia, elite masters runner), Danny Abshire (multisports.com form coach, co-founder Newton Running), Zola Budd Pieterse (Olympian, world champion and world record holder), Danny Dreyer (founder/author of Chi Running), Jay Dicharry, MPT, CSCS (Director of the SPEED Performance Clinic and the Motion Analysis Lab Coordinator at the University of Virginia). Moderated by Brian Metzler, managing editor Running Times Magazine.


(A nice shout out from Dr. Irene Davis on the BRS and our chapters is in the beginning part of Part 11.)


My personal opinion... I would like to thank Danny Abshire, co-founder of Newton Running for sponsoring this talk. It was a very important event for barefoot and minimalist running, no doubt. He says all the right things, but fails to recognize that the Newton is NOT a minimalist running shoe, and it does not 100% promote natural running; if it can't 100% promote natural running then it is not natural. Just like there is no such thing as a barefoot running shoe, there is no such thing as a natural running shoe. Shoes are not natural. They are binding and controlling. The Newtons are binding and controlling. There's only one attribute this shoe has that would "mimic" a natural gait (that's right, mimic), and that is the forepad in which it places the runner up on the forefoot for takeoff and promotes a landing on the fore to midfoot. I've run in the Newton. The forepad caused the tendon that runs along the outer fifth metatarsal to flex way too much and caused serious tendon pain for me. As soon as I took them off and began running barefoot, the tendon pain went away. As soon as I put them back on, the pain reappeared. I did this experiement several times. This flexing of the forefoot caused by the forepad is not natural at all. This shoe is big, bulky, heavy (although lighter than most boat anchors), and has way too many bells and whistles (padding, air chambers, etc.) to be considered natural. Most barefoot and minimalist runners do not even qualify this shoe as a Reduced Running Shoe (RRS) let alone a Minimalist Running Shoe (MRS) or a Natural Running Shoe (NRS). It is a Traditional Running Shoe (TRS) capitalizing on the barefoot and minimalist running market with bells and whistles the other guys don't have.


There's a lot of very good barefoot and minimalist running discussion in these videos. Each one is about under 10 minutes, so watch them when you have the time here and there.


Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re74q66xXv8&feature=related


Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLckgN8Uvlc&feature=related


Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWLBzhhwEgo&feature=related


Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_-rXIi0tic&feature=related


Part 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFAe7OzzgpA&feature=related


Part 6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3I7Mg8HHPZg&feature=related


Part 7: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkccXgiFxNU&feature=related


Part 8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM7PWMLranU&feature=related


Part 9: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLpZlY-fv50&feature=related


Part 10: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw4RQVUgnMs&feature=related


Part 11: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSuMC-nbbnk&feature=related


Part 12: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXL7VZ5MJyo&feature=related
 
#2
 I was just watching these,

I was just watching these, Interesting and fun to hear some of them speak. I had to get over the Newton Sales pitch every few minutes because Newtons are just another heavy boat anchor of a shoe with no ground feel but the rest of the information was great to hear. All in all it was good Newton put all these great minds together and maybe they will learn from the experts.
 
#3
I agree, TJ.  I don't like

I agree, TJ. I don't like Newtons for the same reason. While they do allow you to run with more natural form than foot coffins, they are far from ideal. I do appreciate their efforts to change the raised-heel paradigm, though.
 
#4
Do you mean they are "going"

Do you mean they are "going" to change the raised heel, Jason? Because the ones I bought had a huge, thick, heavy heel. In fact, they had a model of a Newton cut in half, down the middle, and the heel was way too high, just like a traditional boat anchor.
 
#5
It's amazing how fast things

It's amazing how fast things are changing.

I just watched part 11, and it's amazing to hear these industry guys (speaking after Davis) talk about the necessity of ground feel and being aware of your body. In short, they have mostly adopted the paradigm of barefoot running (go easy, listen to your body, etc), even if they still want shoes for protection.

The guy in the red shirt (name?) described the problem as basically a commercial one having to do with transitioning runners to a different form... they don't want to tell their customers to take a break from running for months so they can re-learn how to do something they already feel like they know.

So the industry knows the BFR / natural running point of view, and a lot of people in it probably agree with it to a large extent. They're just trying to figure out how to keep their customers by changing their shoes slowly.

I know that most people in the future aren't going to be going BF. Fine. But my concern is (like one of the guys said in this segment) that for some people minimal shoes don't seem to give enough feedback... I've seen a family member enthusiastically adopt VFFs (after working up to 2 miles BF as I suggested) and only now that she's wearing the VFFs is she experiencing pains.
 
#6
TJ-I think Newton makes a few

TJ-I think Newton makes a few zero-drop shoes. I may be wrong though, I don't really follow them. The pair I tried had a 2mm drop if I remember (I gave them away after testing).



As far as the industry dealing with the emerging evidence that we're right, there are three schools of thought:

1) Ignore the whole transition issue. This is what Vibram does. They give little or no direction and it results in a lot of injuries and/or returned products. Bad idea.

2) Make a "transition shoe". This is the idea behind New Balance's Minimus line. They didn't make the line zero-drop so people could use it to transition from foot coffins to a zero-drop shoe. The minimus is supposed to be an "in-between" shoe. This approach can work, but I don't think it is efficient or especially helpful.

3) Companies can go all the way and produce a true minimalist shoe, then work on educating comsumers. I've been working with a company that's taking this route... it's a good solution in my opinion.
 
#7
I think we, as the barefoot

I think we, as the barefoot running community, need to do more to push the minimalist shoe manufacturers to adding a warning with each sale, one that educates the consumer on how to transition from traditional running shoes (TRS) to minimalist running shoes (MRS) safely and offer info and links to support them in their transition.

We need to be doing more. We should be doing more! Who wants to take this on? Anyone want to represent the BRS and contact these shoe makers and propose our recommendation and philosophy to them? I will make sure the BRS does everything it can to support you in this.
 
#8
"Transitional Shoes" probably

"Transitional Shoes" probably do cause less injuries (foot related anyhow), but really their just capitalizing on people who think they need to buy something so that they can go run barefoot. I admit that I fell into the same thing, I was running barefoot, and I though "Oh, I'll get some hauraches and that'll fix all my problems." WRONG! I can't run in them for crap, but they do make nice walking shoes for when I have to wear something. Even if people can learn the new form properly in any amount of shoe, they're still gonna have to start completely over again when they finally take thier shoes off.

Jason, the 3rd school of thought you mentioned is definitely the way to go, though it may not be as economically viable or easy.
 
#9
I know some local retailers

I know some local retailers who may be interested in seeing these videos, since that is the intended audience. I will pass them along. It's not volunteering but it is something I can do


PB
 
#10
Thanks, PB.  Maybe you can

Thanks, PB. Maybe you can ask them to print a warning label for the minimalist shoes they sell.
 
#11
TJ- I've been trying that for

TJ- I've been trying that for some time... lots of deaf ears out there. The vast majority of companies simply don't want to take the risk. For our perspective, it's a no-brainer. Fromtheir perspective, it's too big of a risk.

Vibram made a fatal error in their decision-making (which is what prompted my "I'm just not that into you" blog post a few weeks ago). Their failure to educate the public about how to use the shoes was very short-sighted. They have created a really bad situation they can't easily fix. I believe they recognize this, which has prompted them to farm out their minimalist soles. Just my hypothesis... and the reasoning behind my "Five Fingers are dead" predictions.
 
#12
What is the risk exactly? 

What is the risk exactly? Wouldn't it (shouldn't it) be more risky to not include educational material?
 
#13
TJHere is the info from

TJ

Here is the info from Newton, Vibram, NB (Minimus) on transitioning into their shoes.

I do not know if similar info comes with the shoes but I suspect it does , lawyers need to get paid :), warning and usage info needs to be vetted very carefully.



http://www.newtonrunning.com/support/faqs/adjust-running-shoes

http://www.vibramfivefingers.com/technology/faqs_switching.cfm

http://www.newbalance.com/nb-minimus/





I actually like Newton transition info more than VFF

and since the Minimus is not out yet time will tell but they are making an effort to inform.
 
#14
They each have good stuff,

They each have good stuff, but of course they don't cover every angle as effectively as I wish and they don't provide support links. The internet material is a good start, but do you know if they include a pamphlet with each purchase?
 
#15
The significant problem they

The significant problem they all make- the people selling the shoes are clueless. Educating the sales force is critical and very difficult. As of right now, any one of us probably know far more about VFFs than the people selling them in stores. An uneducated sales force results in injuries, which results in returns, which results in lost commission, which results in a hesitancy in selling the shoes. Add a slip in quality to the mix and you have a perfect storm for tanking sales.
 
#16
I'm not talking about going

I'm not talking about going through the sales force though, for the reasons you state. I'm talking about a pamphlet that can be included in each and every box of shoes that is sold.
 
#17
A few times at lunch, if I am

A few times at lunch, if I am not running, I have walked to the local running shoe store and just talked to the sales person about shoes and running.
 
#18
Barefoot TJ wrote:I'm not

Barefoot TJ said:
I'm not talking about going through the sales force though, for the reasons you state. I'm talking about a pamphlet that can be included in each and every box of shoes that is sold.
Click to expand...

A pamplet provided by individual manufacturers or by the stores themselves? I think that general transition info would apply to most minimal shoes and benefit those moving into a more minimal shoe. So would it then be the obligation of the store to attach this information to their minimal shoes?
 
#19
I think it should be the

I think it should be the responsibility of the shoe manufacturer, but of course the store should make sure all materials are included. You guys have seen where there is some paperwork attached to a product before, right? Like when you buy a TV, you get the manual. That's what I'm talking about.
 
#20
I gotchya, think it's a great

I gotchya, think it's a great idea. Getting all manufacturers on the same page, though, may be difficult
 
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