Never healing ankle

NotSoDoomedRunner

NotSoDoomedRunner

Barefooters
Apr 27, 2011
668
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#1
Back in June, I had a very bad race and basically rolled onto my ankle and slid on it down the side of a rocky hill for around 10 feet. I tried to just lower my miles and then ran a 50K on it, but it definitely slowed me down there. I took about 6 weeks off and did Insanity during that time, then tried to come back and run a marathon, which I DNF'd.

I decided after that to take 4 weeks off of running, and 2 weeks in to start ankle rehab, which is basically standing on an inflated disk, rolling, stretching, and doing band work. I also am not doing any impact work. I am doing a ton of body weight workouts and the slower Insanity workouts that don't have jumps.

I have had 2 x-rays and nothing is broken. I can walk on it fine, but running hurts pretty bad, especially when I push off. I have done airrosti and all of this rehab before... It seems I can land midfoot okay, but can't go very fast that way.

Has anyone had experience with this type of injury or success dealing with it? Or any advice at all?

Oh, and sorry if the links are annoying... just thought it would help make a long story short.
 
#2
NotSo, feel free to cross-post this in the Ask the Docs forum too.
 
#4
i have weak ankles also. have a hard time running in shoes because of it. i want to do calf raises while i'm in school but i keep forgetting. when it helps i'll let you know.

oh, i tried to do a pistol and wobbled in front of one of the Drs, he pointed out i have weak ankles after seeing that.
 
#5
Probs best to go back to the doc and explain the pain situation. Hobbit got it spot on if you've ask me - there's tons of ligaments, tendons, nerve fibres and muscles in your feet, that wouldn't show up on xrays.

Questions you can ask yourself that might help your doc (which he should ask you anyhow):

Anything visibly different compared to the other foot (or do both feet look symmetrical)? -> probably best to ask somebody else to have a good look
What sort of pain is it - sharp, dull,... ?
Where exactly is the pain?
Any weakness or just pain?
Any radiating pain or pain anywhere else?
Anything (movement/position/painkillers/..) make it better or worse?
Did the pain change in character, site or intensity over time?
Flexibility in both feet the same?
 
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#6
NotSoDoomedRunner said:
Back in June, I had a very bad race and basically rolled onto my ankle and slid on it down the side of a rocky hill for around 10 feet. I tried to just lower my miles and then ran a 50K on it, but it definitely slowed me down there. I took about 6 weeks off and did Insanity during that time, then tried to come back and run a marathon, which I DNF'd.

I decided after that to take 4 weeks off of running, and 2 weeks in to start ankle rehab, which is basically standing on an inflated disk, rolling, stretching, and doing band work. I also am not doing any impact work. I am doing a ton of body weight workouts and the slower Insanity workouts that don't have jumps.

I have had 2 x-rays and nothing is broken. I can walk on it fine, but running hurts pretty bad, especially when I push off. I have done airrosti and all of this rehab before... It seems I can land midfoot okay, but can't go very fast that way.

Has anyone had experience with this type of injury or success dealing with it? Or any advice at all?

Oh, and sorry if the links are annoying... just thought it would help make a long story short.
Click to expand...

I got hit with mononucleosis at the end of the summer. I could not even so much as walk for 2 months. Needless to say it shot my mileage and strength all to hell.

So I started doing exercises in the water about 5 weeks ago - NOT swimming, but the same kinds of strength training exercises people do on land. The resistance of water has the ability to strengthen ALL muscles in the path of resistance - even the little TINY muscles- like the ones in your ANKLES! The best part about water is that you can slowly build up to doing exercises in shallower and shallower water so that you can control the resistance and amount of body weight -AS NEEDED.

Most everything I do is "one-legged" because one of my legs is longer than the other, so coming down on both legs simultaneously is a big no-no because it exacerbates the corresponding twist in my hips. So I do one-legged slow, deep, squats, and doing one-legged shallow hops, and then I hop around in a circle one one leg, then reverse the direction. Then I do this thing where I push off of stairs at an angle (this is based on PT maneuver used to reset one's SI joint/hips back into proper position). I also do a few sidesteps, and side leg lifts (where I primarily pull my leg inward quickly to get my weak inner thigh muscle going).

When I first started doing this, my muscles were more sore than they had EVER been when I first started trail running. Especially my quads, hamstrings, and ankle muscles -even my inner thighs! Whoot! AND most interesting of all were the sore muscles I felt all along my "bad side" , that muscle under my IT band, my ankle on that side, and even into the bottom of my arch on that side! And it wasn't sore like "strained sore" -it was sore like "oh my god those muscles FINALLY got the work out that they never even got when I was trail running" sore.

I did go trail running after about 3 week of doing this, and it was NOTICEABLY effortless!

So, try it! I'm super impressed.
 
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#7
And if SOME people named MICHAEL would c0me to the pool with me, they might just quit embarrassing themselves with their wobbly pistols. ;)
 
#8
Hobbit said:
Hello,

That's good to know, but what about tendons? Were they sprained or even torn? Is the ankle still swollen?
These latter take a long time to become pain free (my nemesis also!)
Click to expand...

The doctor thought they were sprained but I not suspect there might heave been some torn. It was swollen back in June when I injured it originally, but it no longer is swollen. I am pretty sure the injury is tendons.

I guess my real puzzle is whether it is better to lay off it completely or to just do slow low miles and build up. I worry about the risk of muscle and cardio loss from just doing nothing.
 
#9
NotSoDoomedRunner said:
I guess my real puzzle is whether it is better to lay off it completely or to just do slow low miles and build up. I worry about the risk of muscle and cardio loss from just doing nothing.
Click to expand...
If running midfoot is okay, just slow, I would do that and stop when it begins to hurt somewhere. You could also look at it positively: Yeah, I'm slow, that's what Maffetone is all about, isn't it? The best training for the heart there is! :)
And I think that Jen's Water Training would be an excellent idea as well!

I sprained my ankle last Mars and (like you) I continued to hobble/jog with it (although NOT a 50 K!). That was a bad idea - it rested swollen and painful for about 6 months. After a healing pause (which probably should have been a bit longer :rolleyes:) I resorted to midfoot landing for a couple of weeks.
Even now, with lot's of exercises later, I can still feel it from time to time. Must try out the water gym!
 
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#11
How should I break it to you Doomed?
My yongest son was one year old when I badly sprained my ankle, it took a long while before I could put weight on.
It gives me grief from time to time still for no apparent reason.
And my son is 23 years old.
I won't run on it just yet.
Sorry
 
#12
I was having some lower calf / ankle issues myself a few months back and after an unplanned 4 month break I'm back running with no pains whatsoever! So time off (real time off, not just lowering mileage) might be what your body needs. I know you have been pushing yourself real hard for the past 2 years, maybe longer, your body might be telling you it needs a break?

Also, and I know this is a touchy subject for some, but since I don't really give a damn...

How is your diet? I started cleaning mine up a lot (no pork, all organic, Etc Etc...) and not only have I lost weight, but I feel much better and my body feels healthier. Running is feeling suprisingly easy seeing as how I started back after a 4 month hiatus with an additional 25 pounds clinging desperately to my mid section.... Might be something worth looking into?

In the mean time you could always cycle or swim for cardio. Maybe volunteer at some ultras, that's what I want to do untill I can run one again, volunteer that is.

Just remember that everything is temporary, well... Almost everything. You don't get rid of the aids..
 
#13
Went to the doc today and also had right shin looked at, which has a healing stress fracture. I think when I was doing speedwork I did some heel striking in minimalist shoes that led to that... but the ankle appears to be a swollen ligament that is underneath a fatty pad below the ankle. It apparently has trouble with the swelling being reduced on its own when this happens. I have an MRI on Friday to confirm, and then we will go with treatment.

I am going to cross train for a few weeks, and then he thinks I will be able to run, but slowly for a while, so I will be running the speed of you maffetone folks. I actually think this may be good training. Anyhow, yes there are injuries, but I feel like I have somewhat of a plan forming.
 
#14
Barefoot Dama said:
How should I break it to you Doomed?
My yongest son was one year old when I badly sprained my ankle, it took a long while before I could put weight on.
It gives me grief from time to time still for no apparent reason.
And my son is 23 years old.
I won't run on it just yet.
Sorry
Click to expand...

As long as it is just pain and not doing damage, which is what the doctor thinks now, I am fine with it bothering me from time to time. I was honestly worried I had torn something (which the MRI will show if I did) and could be messing things up worse.
 
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#15
I like how you worded that David.

I've always thoroughly about the dofference between "pain" and "injury". I can deal with pain, I don't want to deal with an injury. You have to know the difference between the two..... I still haven't figured it out exactly. But I think I get closer to understanding it every time I go for a run.
 
#18
Crap Doomed. Sorry man.

A few questions if you don't mind. I am also struggling with an injury right now. I have been too stubborn to get it checked out yet. Feels like PF, but it has been persistent and I have a few symptoms like yours (pain with any push off, seems ok with a mid-foot landing). I had no specific instance that this happened, just a mystery injury.

So was the only way to tell if you had a tear an MRI?

How far below the ankle was your pain? Mine is directly below the ankle, but more on the bottom of the foot.

You said you had some swelling? Any discoloration? I have had neither.

Sorry to burden you with my questions, I know you have plenty to deal with now.
 
#19
Oh no... Sorry to hear. All the best and speedy recovery!

how-to-fall-down-seven-times-get-up-eight.jpg



rickwhitelaw said:
So was the only way to tell if you had a tear an MRI?
Click to expand...

To put it very simple: unfortunately yes. Ligaments & Tendons are usually not seen on x-rays as they are soft tissues. Even CTs (as they are pretty much just fancy xrays) are not ideal. Only if bones are misaligned one could assume a torn ligament on an xray.
 
#20
rickwhitelaw said:
So was the only way to tell if you had a tear an MRI?
Click to expand...
I had a torn ligament in my youth - quite a long time ago. It was not diagnosed by MRI (I suppose theses machines didn't exist yet or were too expensive to be used for anything other than life threatening health problems), but by a quite painful mechanical manipulation: First the healthy foot was bent in different directions to see how far it would go (that was the painful bit). Then the other foot was bent in the same way: it didn't hurt as much as the other and went pretty much farther - this was then diagnosed as two specific ligaments being torn. I was operated the same day to sew them together, so this kind of diagnosis must have been pretty exact. It seems however that today this kind of operation isn't standard any more.

@NotSoDoomedRunner:
I'm sorry to read that - shit happens. :(
 
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