My El Scorcho 50K Training Plan - Constructive Feedback Welcome!

Discussion in 'Ultra Barefoot & Minimalist Running' started by NotSoDoomedRunner, Apr 18, 2013.

  1. NotSoDoomedRunner

    NotSoDoomedRunner Barefooters
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  2. janson

    janson Barefooters
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    Sounds a lot like what I'm thinking about for my next (still to be determined) marathon or longer. I have come to the conclusion that getting in weekend long runs, and not overdoing it during the week are the important parts.
     
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  3. SillyC

    SillyC Barefooters
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    My one suggestion would be to consider juggling things around so you could have a "rest week" in the red zone. I'm pretty religious about not running long THREE weeks in a row. I either alternate two ON then one off. If I get compressed, I'll do one ON then one OFF rather than 3 in a row.

    It's worked pretty well for me. Aside from a small bout with PF last winter, ultrarunning has been very comfortable for me.

    I don't plan on doing anything in specific for El Scorcho - but I'm trained up for a 50m right now.
     
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  4. NotSoDoomedRunner

    NotSoDoomedRunner Barefooters
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    I think that is a good idea. I may base it on feel. Already running into shin splints. I have PT today though and hope to talk to them about that. I think I may add an optional off week in the red zone like you say and if I feel the least bit tired, scale back.

    Thanks!
     

  5. Paul Stansel

    Paul Stansel Barefooters
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    I have to ask, being new to looking at Ultras... the mileage other than the LSR is a lot lower than I expected :) I always thought I wouldn't have time to train for an ultra but looking at that plan makes me think maybe I am overestimating the other miles required during the week.
     
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  6. NotSoDoomedRunner

    NotSoDoomedRunner Barefooters
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    This will be my third ultra and by far my lowest weekly mileage for one, so we will see. The plan generally includes 3 runs a week, including a long run, two 1 hour trips to the gym, and Insanity 5 days a week. So, while this is lower mileage than my previous training, I think the volume of training is comparable. If this works, I will grow off of this for a 50 miler and then 100. I am paying more attention to volume of total workouts (in time) than miles, if that makes sense. Maybe my expirement will be useful to you. Right now I am having a little trouble getting going with some shin issues, but I am confident those are being overcome and I will be going strong soon.

    Another item is to remember, I have an established base from training and running the two prior ultras, so that could be a consideration as well for you.
     

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  7. SillyC

    SillyC Barefooters
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    Paul, the mileage isn't much higher than an intermediate to advanced marathon training plan. There are a couple of common differences in how people train for ultras.
    1. The runs are likely to be slower, and if you're training for a trail event, you'll need to be getting at least your long runs in on trails.
    2. Eating. Trails are slower, and someone who runs a 3:30 marathon might end up with a 50K time of over 6 hours on a moderate trail course. You can't really do that kind of time on two packets of gu and a swig of gatorade. You need to be able to keep down a sandwich or something and keep on running.
    3. Back to back runs on weekends. Some people don't do these, but I love them. I'll run 24 on Saturday and then 12 on Sunday. Or vice versa. Also, you wouldn't take a rest day before a long run.
    But yeah, totally - on a weekday, six miles is good.

    I generally alternate two weeks of about 50-60 miles with one of about 30 miles.
     
  8. NotSoDoomedRunner

    NotSoDoomedRunner Barefooters
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    All good stuff. Also, I don't think the amount of work I am doing outside of running is needed for an ultra, but I am looking to up my game from just finishing. You'd be surprised what you can do with time. When I was runnign higher volume, I was routinely getting up by 4 or earlier. My runs and gym time require me to get to the gym or on my run by 4:30-5 and Insanity at 8PM after the kid goes to bed on this plan. Weekend runs can start as early as 3:30 or so with Kid's soccer and all. I also will be doing a lot of my long runs at night as I get closer to El Scorcho.

    What are your time constraints?
     

  9. Paul Stansel

    Paul Stansel Barefooters
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    Thanks guys appreciate the feedback. Time constraints for me are the desire to sleep 8 hours and having 2 active kids :)
     
  10. SillyC

    SillyC Barefooters
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    And you'd be surprised at how much your family enjoys having you gone, or getting you back after a long run. Chances are, if you enjoy the long runs, you're probably high strung and hell to live with. A weekend with a good long run gives my family several days of peace.
     
  11. Paul Stansel

    Paul Stansel Barefooters
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    More like the rest of my family is high strung and I need to get out of the house.
     
  12. SillyC

    SillyC Barefooters
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    Hey there, Doom!

    How are things going?

    I'm super excited for the race!

    I've been a bit slow on getting my 20s in, but I've been able to do back-to-backs (20 miles, then 12 the next day), so I hope that's going to work out.

    My parents are wondering about spectator options - do you have any input on that? They live in Plano, and have been mulling the idea of "getting a hotel" in Fort Worth for the night. My husband and I had thought of this, but then couldn't figure out what we'd do with the hotel. I suppose they could watch the start and the finish. But I anticipate finishing under 6 hours. Who wants to wake up at 5AM to watch the finish of a race? I told them if they actually wanted to have fun, they should consider volunteering.

    I think the A plan is for me to go out there by myself.

    Also, is there really a jello shot aid station?
     
  13. NotSoDoomedRunner

    NotSoDoomedRunner Barefooters
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    I am excited too. It is part of my ramp up to 100 and my first big milestone since being injured. I did 3 weeks in a row with 20 milers, and last week did 25 and 5 the next day. My legs are just now getting to the point that I can get some miles on them. The injury took a lot longer to recover from than I hoped. So I would have hoped to have more miles, less fat, and more speedwork. Instead I am taking the pressure out of myself and am just going to run comfortably. Saturday night I plan on a final long run and then I will taper. I really need to diet though...


    Last year my dad and wife set up some chairs right on the last portion of the trail. It is city park type trail not a trail-trail if that makes sense. A ton of people set up chairs, tents, whatever along the last and first quarter of a mile of the race. It makes a cheering section at the end of every loop that you kind of get to know through the race.

    Bubba Hotep and my dad will be setting up in the same place. Y'all are free to set up near us. Look for a really tall red-head dude walking around with a short, bald dude. Hard to miss! I plan on bringing my fold up chairs and a card table to put out my gels and what-not in an order I will want to pick up. Last year I ran with a torn tendon, so I hope to beat my time, even out of shape.

    Do you have a goal time?
     

  14. SillyC

    SillyC Barefooters
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    Glad to hear your training is coming along!

    I'll tell my parents about the tent at the start and finish line option.

    Is bubba_hotep running?

    Goal time... not really sure on that one. Under six hours? I ran a 50k on a similar course (loop at a park) around December, and I finished in 5:24, which included about 15 minutes in the bathroom due to some wardrobe issues (no, I didn't crap myself). I think I'm faster now as I've been working on my speed.

    But then there's the heat. I go down to Texas pretty regularly, and I generally am very well acclimatized. It's hitting 90 every day this week, and we don't have air conditioning, and, just a cultural thing, the buildings that DO have air conditioning only put them down to 78-80 degrees. So every time I go down, my entire family has a lot more ooomph than the locals.
     
  15. SillyC

    SillyC Barefooters
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    Oh! I'll try to find you guys. I am super easy to miss. I'm 5'1" and I am really boring looking. I have a brown bob haircut.

    I'll be wearing a pair of luna sandals, though, so eventually, you may recognize me. I might manage to pick up a red sox tank top.
     
  16. Barefoot Gentile

    Barefoot Gentile Barefooters
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    Late to the discussion but to me, a 50k is just like a marathon. Just follow a marathon plan for training, it's what I did, but I only ran one 50k.
     
  17. NotSoDoomedRunner

    NotSoDoomedRunner Barefooters
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    I did my final "long run" Saturday night with a friend at the Hike and bike trails in Austin, which is pretty similar to the ES trail. All and all I am happy with where I am. I thought I would have recovered from injury sooner and started speed work and more miles, but that never happened. The only thing I have is some lingering shin pain to the touch but it does not seem to bother me when running, jumping, or walking unless I get going real fast - which I won't.


    We did 3 loops, 2 5 mile loops, then the 3rd had about a 3 mile diversion to the Texas Capitol and back down to the trail, weaving through the drunks. The first loop I was feeling really good from not running too much that week and was easily hitting an 8mm pace, but my buddy was lagging. The 2nd loop I slowed to 9 for him, and the third was even slower and I kept having to walk for him to catch up. This left me unsure of what pace I can run at right now, but feeling like I hardly ran at all the next morning.

    I plan on a 3 week taper now. I am fatter than I wanted to be right now, but that's okay. I plan on eating cleaner for these three weeks, drinking less booze, and none the week of the race, and hopefully coming in fresh and ready.
     

  18. SillyC

    SillyC Barefooters
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    Great going, Dave!

    I am moderately injured now, unfortunately. About a week ago, something in my butt (maybe my piriformis? maybe my glute?) started spasming. I tried resting a bit last week, but I think that did more harm than good. I spent 5 hours Saturday morning squatting while ripping tile out of my breezeway, and that helped A TON.

    I was able to get in a 22 mile long run on Sunday, but my left hip joint isn't all that mobile and the pace was slllllooooowwww. Even on my short runs, I can't get that leg to turn over faster than a 9:45 pace (I had been running my shorter runs at about an 8:35 pace). It doesn't hurt much, it just doesn't move properly. I think it's getting better?

    I will probably do my final long run on Saturday - I'll do a 2 week taper.

    I'm not optimistic about eating clean during the week leading up to the race as I'll be visiting my parents.
     
  19. NotSoDoomedRunner

    NotSoDoomedRunner Barefooters
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    Ah. I doubt I will eat clean. Had a 3 miler today. That right shin continues to bug me. It hurts to the touch, but not to jump on and only slightly bothers on some runs, none on others. Better on trails than runs. I feel like I could tape it up and be fine for the race but hope not to have to. I am hoping for a better time than Bubba or I got last year, and if the shins are under control that day I am somewhat confident.
     

  20. SillyC

    SillyC Barefooters
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    Okay, well, my under six hour goal is rapidly evaporating. The heat is killing me, and I'm running like a slug. But I'm still moving!

    I'm cautiously optimistic, though - I've had a surprisingly easy time running when I've been in Texas before in July. The humidity is typically WAY less than up here. (85% today) I do very well when I fill my baseball cap and bra with ice. I'll probably just grab some at every loop.
     

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