I am two weeks post surgery for a Morton's Neuroma between my 3rd-4th toes. I had to stop running and it was affecting my every day life. I couldn't walk barefoot at all and anything less than a sneaker and I had horrible pain in my 4th toe. I saw an orthopedic doc and he immediately suggested surgery. Now that I have read so many horror stories online I'm wondering if I jumped the gun?! Regardless, it's too late now! For the most part my recovery is going well compared to most of what I read online. I'm almost completely able to bear weight on the foot and I've experienced very moderate pain in my opinion. I didn't need any pain meds at all. The only real issue I'm having other than what I would consider "normal" soreness is this. When I'm at rest (almost never happens when walking around) my second toe gets this burning/numb feeling like frostbite almost. Can't figure out if it's a circulation issue? Nerve pain? Just curious if anyone has any post-surgery advice in general or your own experience as to when I can expect to be back to cardio, running, etc. Trying not to overdo it but I'm such an athlete, it's killing me not being at the gym!
Morton's Neuroma Surgery
- Thread starter hannah24
- Start date
I can talk about this directly. I've had four neurectomies. That pain you have at rest is from your neurectomy, nerve amputation. It's damaged and trying to regenerate. You are going to have all sorts of crazy pains and sensations now, but mostly, they will be bearable, and you may even get used to some of them. Are you taking any nerve meds to help with this?
As far as getting back to running, everyone's healing is different. You will know when you think you are ready. Have someone with you the first few times to make sure you are able to get back home if it becomes too painful. I hate to say it that way, but there's no pussy-footing around it.
Good luck.
As far as getting back to running, everyone's healing is different. You will know when you think you are ready. Have someone with you the first few times to make sure you are able to get back home if it becomes too painful. I hate to say it that way, but there's no pussy-footing around it.
Good luck.
So - feel like things have changed so much since I wrote this. Most of that "nerve pain" I was having is gone. Now I have more numbness which I'm guessing is normal. Also I have two spots causing me like twinge feelings of pain if that makes sense. One is like right where my second toe meets the ball of my foot. And that's most when I walk and try to actually push off the ball of my foot and when go down stairs. The other is like in my arch when I press on it, it sends a shooting sensation through my 4th toe which is the toe I had most of my pain in before. Could that be the new nerve ending maybe? Were your surgeries successful?
I'm now 2.5 weeks out and almost walking normally with shoes on. Back to doing pilates and upper body exercise. So I'm hopeful! Going back to my doc tomorrow to ask a million questions. I want to know if he implanted the nerve endings into my arch muscle because from what I read that's best?!?
I'm now 2.5 weeks out and almost walking normally with shoes on. Back to doing pilates and upper body exercise. So I'm hopeful! Going back to my doc tomorrow to ask a million questions. I want to know if he implanted the nerve endings into my arch muscle because from what I read that's best?!?
Still, nerve damage. Like I said, you are going to go through all kinds of weird pains and sensations. It's normal for a very abnormal situation.
No, my neurectomies were not successful. I had to have corrective surgery after that on both feet to reimplant the nerve endings into arch muscle. Implanting is a good option since it prevents the nerves from growing back into stump neuromas, but it will also prevent you from going 100% barefoot outside where there is a lot of debris, since you will have extreme pain from stepping on the slightest thing in the ball of foot area.
No, my neurectomies were not successful. I had to have corrective surgery after that on both feet to reimplant the nerve endings into arch muscle. Implanting is a good option since it prevents the nerves from growing back into stump neuromas, but it will also prevent you from going 100% barefoot outside where there is a lot of debris, since you will have extreme pain from stepping on the slightest thing in the ball of foot area.
If someone has tried everything or nearly everything (cortisone injections, alcohol injections, electroshockwave therapy with numbing injections, cryosurgery, neurectomies...), and all have failed, and they cannot live with the pain, then I would recommend the reimplantation surgery.
It's hard to say if I would recommend the reimplantation surgery over neurectomy or vice versa at this point. Some people can have the neurectomy surgery and never have any problems with it, no stumps, no intolerable pain. Some, like me, can have neurectomies done and have each nerve (four) regrow into a stump neuroma. But no one can tell you if yours will grow into a stump or not, so there's no way to tell you which surgery you should have done (first). The reimplantation surgery is definitely used as a corrective surgery to a failed neurectomy though.
There are risks with each type of surgery. With neurectomy, the nerve can grow back into a stump. Whenever a nerve is cut, our bodies send out a chemical response telling the nerve to regenerate. If the nerve runs into scar tissue, cartilage, or bone, it will bunch up and deform. When this happens, all sorts of pain signals are generated. With reimplantation, you can experience extreme sensitivity in the ball of foot area making walking or running barefoot "outside" painful. If you are flat-footed, you can have difficulty walking or running on objects barefoot. There are other risks as well, as with all surgeries.
If yours grows back into a stump, the only alternative I know of (ask a peripheral nerve surgeon well-versed and experienced in this area) is having the neurectomy performed again or having the reimplantation surgery done. I would think cryosurgery/cryoablation, radio-frequency ablation, or more injections would be ridiculous, but then I am not a doctor.
The corrective surgery (reimplantion into the arch) is "typically" done as a last resort after failed neurectomy. It is done by cutting through the bottom of the foot at the arch. "Simple" podiatrists prefer going the injection routes first before doing this type of surgery. (Injections are simple for them to do and make them a lot of money, especially since they are given in a series.) Then if those don't work, most of these doctors will perform a neurectomy over reimplantation because it is what they know. Not many of them know how to perform the reimplantation surgery. Most of them are simply not trained to, or, believe it or not, they've never even heard of it. Dr. A. Lee Dellon of Maryland (John Hopkins University, renown peripheral nerve surgeon, pioneer of many nerve repair technologies, procedures, and surgeries, first to map the peripheral nervous system, etc.) and a student of his are the ones who created the reimplantation surgery. It definitely prevents the nerve from developing into a stump because the nerve will grow just a little bit, and since it's healthy tissue (the arch), it will stop growing, but it's not perfect. It does cause a host of other problems, such as oversensitivity in the ball of foot area and weird nerve pain and sensations (phantom nerve pain, same as what amputees experience). He recommends water therapy to help the brain remap the new location(s) of the nerve(s) which didn't help me at all.
BTW, if your doctor tells you that you he/she has embedded the nerve ending into arch muscle and you do not have a cut through your arch, then they are full of it and just trying to ease your fears in hopes that you won't experience any negatives. The anatomy of the foot is too delicate for them to embed the nerve into your arch muscle through the top (dorsal). They have to go through the bottom (plantar) to reach the arch muscle. Put it to them this way without divulging what you have learned: "Did you reimplant the nerve endings into my arch muscles?" Wait to see how he/she responds before springing what you have learned on them.
It's hard to say if I would recommend the reimplantation surgery over neurectomy or vice versa at this point. Some people can have the neurectomy surgery and never have any problems with it, no stumps, no intolerable pain. Some, like me, can have neurectomies done and have each nerve (four) regrow into a stump neuroma. But no one can tell you if yours will grow into a stump or not, so there's no way to tell you which surgery you should have done (first). The reimplantation surgery is definitely used as a corrective surgery to a failed neurectomy though.
There are risks with each type of surgery. With neurectomy, the nerve can grow back into a stump. Whenever a nerve is cut, our bodies send out a chemical response telling the nerve to regenerate. If the nerve runs into scar tissue, cartilage, or bone, it will bunch up and deform. When this happens, all sorts of pain signals are generated. With reimplantation, you can experience extreme sensitivity in the ball of foot area making walking or running barefoot "outside" painful. If you are flat-footed, you can have difficulty walking or running on objects barefoot. There are other risks as well, as with all surgeries.
If yours grows back into a stump, the only alternative I know of (ask a peripheral nerve surgeon well-versed and experienced in this area) is having the neurectomy performed again or having the reimplantation surgery done. I would think cryosurgery/cryoablation, radio-frequency ablation, or more injections would be ridiculous, but then I am not a doctor.
The corrective surgery (reimplantion into the arch) is "typically" done as a last resort after failed neurectomy. It is done by cutting through the bottom of the foot at the arch. "Simple" podiatrists prefer going the injection routes first before doing this type of surgery. (Injections are simple for them to do and make them a lot of money, especially since they are given in a series.) Then if those don't work, most of these doctors will perform a neurectomy over reimplantation because it is what they know. Not many of them know how to perform the reimplantation surgery. Most of them are simply not trained to, or, believe it or not, they've never even heard of it. Dr. A. Lee Dellon of Maryland (John Hopkins University, renown peripheral nerve surgeon, pioneer of many nerve repair technologies, procedures, and surgeries, first to map the peripheral nervous system, etc.) and a student of his are the ones who created the reimplantation surgery. It definitely prevents the nerve from developing into a stump because the nerve will grow just a little bit, and since it's healthy tissue (the arch), it will stop growing, but it's not perfect. It does cause a host of other problems, such as oversensitivity in the ball of foot area and weird nerve pain and sensations (phantom nerve pain, same as what amputees experience). He recommends water therapy to help the brain remap the new location(s) of the nerve(s) which didn't help me at all.
BTW, if your doctor tells you that you he/she has embedded the nerve ending into arch muscle and you do not have a cut through your arch, then they are full of it and just trying to ease your fears in hopes that you won't experience any negatives. The anatomy of the foot is too delicate for them to embed the nerve into your arch muscle through the top (dorsal). They have to go through the bottom (plantar) to reach the arch muscle. Put it to them this way without divulging what you have learned: "Did you reimplant the nerve endings into my arch muscles?" Wait to see how he/she responds before springing what you have learned on them.
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Wow you certainly seem to have a lot of knowledge on it. I'm kind of feeling like I jumped the gun with the surgery. My doctor made it sound like my only option but in his defense something showed up on my MRI and they didn't think it was a neuroma. Thought it was a cyst or something like that because I did not present with the typical Neuroma symptoms. That is kind of why I am only now doing my research after the surgery. And I feel like my recovery is just going so well. He said mine was very simple to get out. When he opened up my foot it was right there. My surgery literally only took like 10 minutes. So I'm wondering if that's maybe why my recovery is going so quickly. How and when will I know if I'm in the clear for the stump?
You may be just fine, and I'm not here to put a damper on that.
It seemed I was doing well too after my incision closed, stitches, out all that. Recovery was as near perfect for a surgery like that as you could hope for. I even went for a couple of beautiful runs without any pain. It felt like old times. Then on that third run, I could tell they were growing back. Soon enough (3 months after surgery), I knew they were back.
A stump can take weeks, three months like mine, or a year to develop. Some grow faster than others.
There are a lot of conditions that mimic MN with or without MRI (http://mortonsneuromatalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=201.) A better technology being used, but not often enough unfortunately, is MRN (http://mortonsneuromatalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=87). A MRN will tell you no-doubt what you are dealing with. MRI is haphazard and has been proven to be so. Ultrasound is better at detecting an MN than MRI. Still, nothing at present beats MRN for detecting MN.
It seemed I was doing well too after my incision closed, stitches, out all that. Recovery was as near perfect for a surgery like that as you could hope for. I even went for a couple of beautiful runs without any pain. It felt like old times. Then on that third run, I could tell they were growing back. Soon enough (3 months after surgery), I knew they were back.
A stump can take weeks, three months like mine, or a year to develop. Some grow faster than others.
There are a lot of conditions that mimic MN with or without MRI (http://mortonsneuromatalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=201.) A better technology being used, but not often enough unfortunately, is MRN (http://mortonsneuromatalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=87). A MRN will tell you no-doubt what you are dealing with. MRI is haphazard and has been proven to be so. Ultrasound is better at detecting an MN than MRI. Still, nothing at present beats MRN for detecting MN.
She certainly does since she went thru hell and back. I, on the other hand, consider myself lucky that my orthopedic warned me about the pros/cons had I decided to go thru surgery. He really advised me against it and thank God for it.
Around that time I also found Vibram Five Fingers shoes and those were a life saver for me, they make my life tolerable.
Good luck to you and hopefully your surgery put an end to you suffering. Please keep us posted of your progress.
So - I am back with another question. I am now a little over a month post-op for my Morton's Neuroma between my 3rd-4th toes. Overall I think my healing is going well. I'm back to the gym and took my first post-op spinning class today and felt pretty good. The ball of my foot is sore when I first wake up in the morning but otherwise pretty good. I'm finally walking without a limp. The only lingering issue I'm having right now is in my 4th toe. That's where most of my pain was before surgery, but before surgery it was clearly a radiating pain. Whenever I put pressure where the neuroma was (walking or running) the pain would shoot out my toe. Now it's sore to the touch and also just has like a "raw" feeling when I walk on it. That's the best way I can describe it. It's like in the pad of the toe and just feels like a cross between soreness, rawness and like there's sand in there or something. This has only been going on for maybe 4-5 days now. Is this what you would consider nerve pain??
It could be nerve pain, but it's hard to classify nerve pain when all pain signals travel through the nerves. I experienced and still experience all sorts of weird random nerve pain after the surgeries.
I would have waited longer before jumping on the bike or doing anything strenuous with my feet. You might consider backing off now, at least another month, and allowing your feet to fully heal before getting back into physical activity. Four weeks is too soon, in my opinion. You don't want to risk undoing all the work that was just done or making your condition worse.
I would have waited longer before jumping on the bike or doing anything strenuous with my feet. You might consider backing off now, at least another month, and allowing your feet to fully heal before getting back into physical activity. Four weeks is too soon, in my opinion. You don't want to risk undoing all the work that was just done or making your condition worse.
Has your doctor has the surgery himself? I love the way they recommend that people just go back out there, as soon as possible, and live the way they used to. That's what they tell us "before" we have the surgery, like they're trying to sell it to us. I have read enough stories that tell me the opposite. Why push it? Why not let your body heal. There was a lot of cutting that went on. It's going to take time for that damage to heal. Let it have a few more weeks. What's the hurry?
Haha - I don't know if he's had the surgery himself. I mean he told me low impact is better and to just not doing anything that made it hurt. So I though the bike would be okay. The PT also told me bike, elliptical, etc. Like I said, my foot itself feels fine it's just that one pesky toe. It's almost like it's hyper sensitive or something. Like even touching it to the carpet hurts. But this is a new thing. So far every "nerve pain" issue I've had has been short lived so I was kind of hoping it would just go away. I'll take a couple days off from cardio and see if it helps.
Cycling and elliptical are considered low-impact, but they still require the use of the forefoot/ball of foot, especially cycling.
It will calm down. It just takes time.
It will calm down. It just takes time.
I'm fine with waiting it out. He told me not to expect to be fully recovered for at least 3 months. I just wish I knew if exercising was hampering anything. Because it helps me so much mentally, physically and keeps the swelling down. I can't sit around.......
I get it. I wanted it to all be over too. Get back onto living. It's better to be safe now than sorry later. Take time to let your body heal. Check back here in a couple of months. Looking forward to hearing about your progress.
The PT and ortho told me to just let my pain guide me. It doesn't bother me while exercising but maybe I'll take a few days off and see if it improves. Just go back to pilates and upper body for the rest of the week.
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