More of less or less of more?

Oh yeah, all that makes sense, although I'm not a racer.

And when I do take my av pace readings, as noted above, it's over a certain distance (currently 5-6 miles) when I'm doing my 'steady run' (I hesitate to call it my 'long and slow run' because 'long' and 'slow' are such relative terms). It kind of goes without saying that I slow down for more difficult surfaces or inclines, and speed up on easier surfaces or nice flat sections, since I'm a recreational runner, and not spinning around on a flat, uniform track, taking times on my splits. Of course, during my fartleks, the pace varies greatly for each speed-play, as it does on the different sections of my hill repeats.

One more question: what do you consider 'core' strength exercises? I generally consider this new(ish) talk of 'core' to be silly, but I haven't really looked into it, and I try to keep an open-mind about the latest fitness trends. Is it any different than doing a bunch of different kinds of abdominal exercises and various dumbbell and barbell exercises? I admit I've been intrigued by the concept of the slosh tube, yet haven't quite motivated to run to Menards to pick up the supplies to make one. It might be fun to walk around the yard with one while my neighbor obsessively mows his lawn twice a week. I've also been thinking about installing a climbing rope, but weekends are usually taken up with family life and chores. I think climbing up and down a rope would be a great 'finishing' exercise after strength training with weights, whether or not there's a core involved.
 
One more question: what do you consider 'core' strength exercises? I generally consider this new(ish) talk of 'core' to be silly, but I haven't really looked into it, and I try to keep an open-mind about the latest fitness trends. Is it any different than doing a bunch of different kinds of abdominal exercises and various dumbbell and barbell exercises? I admit I've been intrigued by the concept of the slosh tube, yet haven't quite motivated to run to Menards to pick up the supplies to make one. It might be fun to walk around the yard with one while my neighbor obsessively mows his lawn twice a week. I've also been thinking about installing a climbing rope, but weekends are usually taken up with family life and chores. I think climbing up and down a rope would be a great 'finishing' exercise after strength training with weights, whether or not there's a core involved.
For me core work is so much more involved than just using weights, although weights can help. With my back problems I had to learn that there is so much more to your "core strength" than just your abs. All the little stabilizer muscles in your back, sides, and abs contribute to the whole of your core. Funny that a lot of fitness people only refer to your abs when they talk about a persons core. I try to do workouts that are geared for making the whole core strong and healthy versus just the abs. Rope climbing, depending on your rope climbing form (yes there's more than one way to climb a rope), can be a great exercise for building a healthy core, as well as strong arm muscles. Doing stuff like bear crawls, the plank, and even jumping as far as you can will help you build "core strength". I myself have always preferred doing core workouts that involve full body movements versus just ab isolated movements. That's just me though.
 
Funny that a lot of fitness people only refer to your abs when they talk about a persons core. I try to do workouts that are geared for making the whole core strong and healthy versus just the abs.
Sure, but once you throw in all the different things you can do with weights--lifts, presses, extensions, raises, rows, cables, and so on--and ab stuff (including kicks and knee raises), isn't that sufficiently working the torso/trunk, or 'core' as it's come to be called?
P.S., please elaborate more on rope climbing--the best kind of rope, different kinds of climbing techniques, etc. Thanks Nick.
 
With rope climbing there are several techniques, from using your arms exclusively to wrapping the rope around one leg and creating a bite so that your legs do 95% of the work. Also, I do not believe that just because your core muscles are strong for specific weight exercises that they will be strong for normal full body exercises/workouts. Have you ever met that body builder that could do a ton of weights in the gym but when it came to real world movements they were weak? I think somehow by doing isolation exercises we somehow miss some of the little muscles needed for the real world. Hell, last week changing my exercise routing from doing all those isolation type exercises to one where I use more of my whole body is kicking my butt, despite all the isolated muscle training I had been doing. I'm not going to pretend that I understand it completely, because I don't.
 
Also, I do not believe that just because your core muscles are strong for specific weight exercises that they will be strong for normal full body exercises/workouts. Have you ever met that body builder that could do a ton of weights in the gym but when it came to real world movements they were weak? I think somehow by doing isolation exercises we somehow miss some of the little muscles needed for the real world. Hell, last week changing my exercise routing from doing all those isolation type exercises to one where I use more of my whole body is kicking my butt, despite all the isolated muscle training I had been doing. I'm not going to pretend that I understand it completely, because I don't.
Well, it's probably a matter of semantics--and I'm a semantic conservative by nature--but I don't think there are 'core' muscles or exercises. It sounds to me like you're describing what I would call good ol' fashioned 'conditioning.'

And isolation is a relative term. Bicep curls are very isolating, for example, but still involve most of the arm muscles at least a little, in addition to the biceps, and then so many of the other types of strength training exercises involve between one and four limbs and a good deal of the torso. An upright row, for example, involves the forearm, triceps, a good deal of the shoulder, upper and lower back, and balancing and stability contractions and reflexes all the way down to the feet. A power clean works pretty much every muscle in the body to some extent except for those in the face.

But I take your point about incorporating more conditioning, or 'functional fitness' as it's sometimes called nowadays, into our workout regimens (although I think anything involving heavier weights should probably best be done with very controlled and deliberate movements from a stable platform [bench, floor, etc.]--to avoid injury and promote hypertrophy). I've been meaning to do this, but my present routine is so comfortable and I'm still making steady progress just building that stuff back to where it used to be that I'm not terribly motivated to add anything more for the time being. Ideally, I would get most of my conditioning from some kind of martial art once or twice a week, but can't imagine scheduling anything with a fixed time right now.

Also, I'm not sure I have ever met "that body builder that could do a ton of weights in the gym but when it came to real world movements ... were weak." I could see a guy like that not having stamina for wrestling or something, but I'm pretty sure if someone can deadlift 300-400 pounds or more then they can help you move your sofa.

In the end, with limited time, you have to make choices, and you'll get better at whatever it is you choose to do. No need to feel too bad about leaving some things out and finding yourself a little sore after raking the leaves, despite being generally fit, as long as you don't get hurt doing it!
 
Interesting BL. Kind of says what I was trying to say, only better.
Wha ? Basically they're saying just good ol' fashion low rep lifts/squats are the best thing for runners, pooh-poohing the idea of core exercises for the most part, and they greatly undermine the notion of functional fitness in favor of isolating agonist muscles for more efficient activation.
That said, I did do some bear crawls with my 16-month-old son during lunch break, and could see adding that as a finishing exercise too, in addition to the rope climb I'm going to mount at some point this decade.
 
having no internet sucks. i have to drive to mcd's or the library and can't wathc porn at either place.

i'm guessing i'm nick's circle of running friends who believes in maf. i did one cycle and had some good results. i started racing in march and decided time to up the training and do some hills. i learned how to race better thanks to the maf training but watched my maf pace slow down. way down. just as he said.

after that cycle of training and racing i'm back into the lsd. two hours today to go 6 miles. it's killing me. than again most of it was uphill that i had to walk. coming from a background of no exercise growing up it's not surprising i have no aerobic endurance.

as far as injuries. i stubbed my toe and that's been the extent of them along with the beginners blisters. i came into running with pf and the muscular imbalances. i was only shown the trigger points recently.

while this slow aerobic running is a bit tedious and boring i can't argue with the results. come september when it warrior dash time, i'll up my training again.

tim, i have an ebook on breathing to help rid you of asthma. if you want a copy give me your email. i don't think this system can handle it.
 
Wha ? Basically they're saying just good ol' fashion low rep lifts/squats are the best thing for runners, pooh-poohing the idea of core exercises for the most part, and they greatly undermine the notion of functional fitness in favor of isolating agonist muscles for more efficient activation.
That said, I did do some bear crawls with my 16-month-old son during lunch break, and could see adding that as a finishing exercise too, in addition to the rope climb I'm going to mount at some point this decade.
If I remember correctly, and this morning I am too tired to go back and re-read the article, his point was you shouldn't do "core" specific workouts, but workouts that involve the core, like running does.
 
Sure, but once you throw in all the different things you can do with weights--lifts, presses, extensions, raises, rows, cables, and so on--and ab stuff (including kicks and knee raises), isn't that sufficiently working the torso/trunk, or 'core' as it's come to be called?
P.S., please elaborate more on rope climbing--the best kind of rope, different kinds of climbing techniques, etc. Thanks Nick.

I just happened to be looking at this video yesterday. Navy SEAL Rope Climbing Techniques
 
Ok, so I guess we're agreeing with each other while disagreeing. Up above you mentioned doing core workouts, but I understand what you mean now . . . I think.
The reason I pounce when I hear the word 'core' is that some people seem to be under the impression that 10 plus years ago nobody did anything to work out their trunk, that everything was somehow limb-based, or just sit-ups. Over the last several months I've spent a fair amount of time trying to get on top of the latest fitness trends, and have learned surprising little that I didn't already know. Running (sprints and distance), weights (lifts, presses, extensions, raises, rows, cables), a little rowing or cycling or swimming, some high intensity stuff or a sport, it's all been around for years and years. Jesus I even bought a damn physioball. I used it once, realized how stupid and inefficient it was to do stuff on such an unstable platform, and now it's out in the yard by the play station. But I'm definitely getting a climbing rope, and it's old school so I don't have to give up my curmudgeonly attitude to use it.
 
...after that cycle of training and racing i'm back into the lsd. two hours today to go 6 miles. it's killing me. than again most of it was uphill that i had to walk. coming from a background of no exercise growing up it's not surprising i have no aerobic endurance...

yea gods man, 2hrs for 6 miles ? That seems like an incredibly slow pace. I assume its that slow because your forcing yourself to maintain your HR in the MAF method predicted range. I wonder how closely that HR corresponds to 70% of HRR for you....which is sort of where the MAF HR is for the average Joe, you may well be an outlier in terms of your cardiovascular system, and perhapes running bassed on %HRR might be better.

If you simply have to reduce the speed to remain in the desired HR range over that course then id be re-thinking the course selection, if your having to walk a good proportion of it, you may not be getting the same benifit as if you were able to run on a flat course... some of the adaption is local to the muscles actually used.
 
Cool, yah, I came across that about a month ago when I first started looking into it. I already have the tree picked out . . .

Hah! I am putting together a tree climbing gathering with a couple of my BFR peeps. That's why I was looking at this. Yeah that series of videos has a lot of good stuff. Real tree climbing clinics are EXPENSIVE, which is why youtube is my friend. I have my plan all tentatively sketched out in my mind. And the trees picked out. We will all end up climbing on poison oak and end up spending the day in the hospital. Lol.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bare Lee
Hah! I am putting together a tree climbing gathering with a couple of my BFR peeps. That's why I was looking at this. Yeah that series of videos has a lot of good stuff. Real tree climbing clinics are EXPENSIVE, which is why youtube is my friend. I have my plan all tentatively sketched out in my mind. And the trees picked out. We will all end up climbing on poison oak and end up spending the day in the hospital. Lol.
Great minds move in the same direction . . . Happy climbing!
 
  • Like
Reactions: jldeleon
Yah, I read somewhere that that formula can be up to 25% percent off for a given individual. 3-4 miles an hour is basically walking pace.
Thats why i like HRR, even if your a bit wonky with determining your HR(max) or HR (rest) at least its bassed on your own values and not a rule of thumb for Joe Blow.
 

Support Your Club

Forum statistics

Threads
19,094
Messages
183,434
Members
8,688
Latest member
Jojo9090