Mileage Reporting 52nd Week of 2012

Discussion in 'Mileage Reporting' started by Sid, Dec 23, 2012.

  1. NickW

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    Lee, I don't get why some of us barefooters feel the need to try to push the limits in the cold. I pushed my limits last year, I see you just pushed your limits, Rick pushed his too far last year and got frost bite. I don't know why some of us can't seem to just play it safe so we can live to run another day. Must be some macho I'm a man thing I guess. I don't think I've ever read on here where a woman has pushed it too far. They tend to have more sense I guess. :D
     
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  2. Bare Lee

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    I agree with you mostly about men being bigger jacka$$es than women, and I have a congenital lack of common sense, but yesterday I was under the impression that I was within my limits. I had built up to this fairly methodically over the last month or two, and had last winter's experience to go by too. I thought yesterday's conditions fit within the parameters I had established, but the feet-heat didn't get a chance to kick in until it was too late. I guess I pushed my limits in the sense of waiting too long to see if the numb-plunge would taper off or reverse itself. I should've put on the shoes after a half a mile, and of course, I also should've have brought my smart wool socks. Anyway, I'm out. According to the Mayo Clinic, I got first-degree frost bite. I'll probably be losing the outer layer of the skin on the bottom of my toes in a few days. We'll see . . . but in the meantime, I'm running shod in any kind of sub-freezing moisture.
     
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  3. NickW

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    Oh dang Lee, sorry to hear that. At least it sounds like you can run still, even if it is in shoes. Hopefully either pair of shoes you wear you won't have too much for problems with them. I wore my new VFF Speeds yesterday and got a nasty blister on my arch of one foot that burst and shredded my arch. Sucks but this wet while not rainy crap sucks here as much of my run is through soggy wet leaves sitting on concrete which seem to retain the cold very well and makes it miserable (for me, a tender foot). Hopefully wearing socks will solve the blistering problem for me. Hope your feet get better soon.
     
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  4. dutchie53

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    No blisters then you have frostnip, blisters and you have frostbite. If you have tingling and feelings in those toes you should be good. That is how I felt after my 1 km at -24. Live and learn Lee and try not to lose any digits in the process. ;)
     
  5. rickwhitelaw

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    Lee, sorry to hear about this. So, do not take any chances refreezing the toes. Don't even go out to your BBQ barefoot. When the blisters form, do everything you can not to pop the blisters, this might include running, even in shoes. Maybe tape the toes before running. If they pop, tape over the blister and let the skin heal under the blister. My worse toe, the blister opened up and had no protection for the new skin. That toe is still sensitive a year later. Good luck to you, speedy recovery.
     
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  6. Bare Lee

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    Thanks for the info Dutchie.

    The toes seem like they might be a bit swollen, and are red now. They're sensitive to the touch and a bit painful even at rest but mostly walking around. The soles are fine. I'm wondering if I should see a doctor but from what I've read online it doesn't sound like there's much to do except let the body heal itself. I wonder if a dip in the hot tube would be advisable? Also, do you think it would be safe to run tomorrow if I wear smart wool socks and running shoes? Or perhaps I should wait and see how the toes feel in a few days?
     
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  7. Bare Lee

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    Thanks for the timely feedback Rick. I don't have any surface blisters, but there might be some swelling under the callouses. How long did it take for your blisters to form? I read online it takes 1-2 days. My sense is that I have frost nip (first-degree frost bite), as Dutchie suggested, not frostbite (2nd to 4th degrees), but I would like to be sure. Also, as long as my feet stay warm, do you think it's safe to run again soon? Last night I did put on my smart wool socks and RunAmocs to go out to the grill, and only stayed out long enough to turn the chicken over or spray a little water on the lava rocks.
     
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  8. rickwhitelaw

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    I had to go back and read my thread http://thebarefootrunners.org/threads/1st-bf-injury-frostbite.3919/ (for some reason my pictures disappeared). It looks like I thought I was ok until about day 4, that's when I tore open a blister on a group trail run. Keep your eye on the toes, any waxy color or blisters forming, use caution. Running won't be a problem unless the friction opens the blisters up. Let's hope it is just frost nip.
     
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  9. rickwhitelaw

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    5 miles yesterday and I would like to do 20 in Snow Canyon if I can get my family out of the house. It's my wife's B-Day and shes going to let me run as long as I have enough energy for shopping, dinner, and movie after.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Barefooting Bob

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    No hot tub Lee, it will soften the skin and blister to much and will burst, allowing infection in which is the last thing you want. Dutchie is right it does not sound like frost bite, sounds more like a bad case of frost nip (still not good). Be very careful with your feet for the next week, I would suggest no running even in shoes, your feet will need the time off to heal, running creates friction and rubbing no matter how you slice it which will not allow your feet to heal properly. This will result in oversensitive skin in those areas, exactly like Rick mentioned earlier. Be smart and let them heal before you do any further damage.

    I will stress the importance of your discoveries on this last venture, do not run barefoot with a mixture of cold and moisture, no matter how conditioned your feet are they cannot handle both conditions together, I found this out in my first year of trying winter barefooting. Secondly, as soon as you feel something is not right shut it down. Your body is your number one warning system, you have to listen to it, no exceptions. I do not experiment with new shoes on a run especially at night you are just asking for trouble. If something goes wrong you need to be confident that you can get your emergency footwear on pronto. I do not bring anything other than what I can slip on quickly, hence I do not bring my VFF's anymore for that exact reason. Remember Numb Toes are Dumb Toes.

    I hope you heal quickly Lee, but please take it easy. Trust your instincts, 99.9% percent of the time they will be right.
     
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  11. Sid

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    I recall stubbornly trying to run before with cuts or blisters which caused me to change my footstrike and form ever so slightly. This then resulted in aggravating or straining something further up the chain in the ankle/knee/leg, which took even longer to recover from. I hope you heal up quickly. Hey, that's why you have the rowing machine, right?

    I suspect that the overheating the core concept works best when one is warmed up before going out in the cold. Here's an excerpt from another thread.
    Last weekend, when I tried to run during the chill, I had the heat cranked up both days in the car during the drive to the trails. Although I felt toasty, my feet were still cold and numb, until I started sprinting and worked up a light sweat. Since I couldn't feel my feet, I must have stepped on something which resulted in a small cut. I don't know. Perhaps next time, I'll do some jumping jacks in the parking lot with shoes and socks and work up a light sweat, before I run.
     
  12. Bare Lee

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    "DO NOT RUN IN SNOW WHEN THE TEMPS ARE BELOW 20 DEGREES!"
    Good (belated) advice. I was right at the threshold yesterday.

    Thanks for the feedback Bob. I agree with you, but there's a fine line sometimes. On my wet runs a week or two ago, over water, slush, and ice, I was at the limits of my tolerance, but did OK. Last winter in slush similar to conditions two weeks ago, I couldn't hack it. Then yesterday I felt like I was once again within my limits, but didn't do OK. The only difference was the rapidity with which my feet were numbing. I thought if I could do slush at 26 windchill, I should be able to do snow at 21F. NOT. Also, I wasn't in any pain, so listening to your body has its limits. What cued me in was when I looked down and saw that three toes had gone white. I need to use visual cues more often I guess. The foot wasn't stiffening up at all, which is the listen-to-your-body indicator I had been using to judge whether I needed to cover up or not. It was the bottom of the toes in the snow that couldn't handle it.

    Anyway, from now on I'll avoid all moisture at below freezing temps, just to be safe. Last year I set my dry barefoot running limit at 20F, but this winter I seem good down to about 10f, and a bit less if it's windchill and not real temp, but in any case I probably won't do any barefoot running for several weeks now.

    But you're right about trusting one's instincts. My instinct before the run was to either run shod or start out shod, but I liked the idea of not running shod at all this winter before the end of the year. Once again, numerology did me in. Plus, I think I had talked myself into believing that my tolerances had improved over last winter more than they had.

    Anyway, the toes are feeling better as the day goes on, so I doubt it's anything too serious. Should have a better idea in a day or two.
     
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  13. Bare Lee

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    Yah, I thought about that actually before yesterday's run. But it hadn't been necessary before. Usually I know within a mile or a mile and a half if I'm going to be OK, but by that time on yesterday's run, it was already too late. The numb-plunge happened much more quickly than normal. My success in the slush and ice had made me overconfident, even though my gut was telling me something different.

    I still don't think the overheating the core concept is valid. What JT did was warm up generally. That's what I thought about doing yesterday, by running the first mile shod. Overheating the core is meant to prevent the body from reducing blood flow to the extremities, which it does to maintain core temps. But it wasn't that cold out yesterday, so my core temp was never even close to being in trouble.

    What happened yesterday is that my body wasn't able to maintain sufficient blood flow to my toes, in order to counteract the freezing action on the skin surface. By the time my metabolism had revved up, my feet were already too numb for the increased circulation to reheat them. I think it's possible I could've done the same run successfully if I had run the first mile or so shod. But I won't be testing that hypothesis anytime soon!

    As for rowing, unfortunately, I gave my rowing machine to my dad. I could still use it I guess, but I think I would prefer some kind of circuit training with weights. Rowing is deathly boring. I can only do it if I'm listening or watching something. Hmnn, maybe I could watch part of a game with my dad this Sunday . . .
     
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  14. Sid

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    I think you're right. Under those conditions, it sounds like a flash freeze. Possibly similar to when one sticks their tongue to frozen pole.
     
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  15. Barefooting Bob

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    Not highly recommended either. My son found that out last year, the things that kids do to impress their friends.
     
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  16. NickW

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    I did it in first or second grade too....
     
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  17. NickW

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    Go Vikes!!! I'm really rooting for them this weekend.
     
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  18. NickW

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    45 minutes on the recumbent along with almost an hour doing ST in the gym (chest and triceps).
     
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  19. Sid

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    "I double dog dare you!"
     
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  20. Bare Lee

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    Thanks, glad you guys creamed SF. Carroll and Harbaugh used to be college rivals, right? Maybe we'll meet in the Championship game.

    I'll be watching the game over at my older brother's place. My teenage nephews are sportsaholics, so it's a chance to bond a bit. Unfortunately they watch a lot more than they play. I guess texting during games and playing fantasy football count as participation for the younger generation. I've been watching most of the games this year on Tivo Sunday nights with my younger brother in his ultra deluxe home theater. I like being able to fastforward the commercials but he also fastforwards everything else except the plays, so the games are highly compressed and fly by too quickly. I miss having time to discuss and contemplate the plays. I almost miss the insipid banter of the ex-jock broadcasters too.
     
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