MAF running question

Discussion in 'Barefoot & Minimalist Running' started by Woodsman, Jan 19, 2012.

  1. Woodsman

    Woodsman Barefooters
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    Since I am new to barefoot and going slow to begin with, I figure now would be as good a time as any to try a MAF running program. I did a little research online and I am going to by one of the book on the topic soon enough.

    My HR monitor uses zones. The question I have right now is what heart rate zone should I be in? The zones are described as:

    Zone 1: 60-70% HR max

    Zone 2: 70-80% HR max and

    Zone 3: 80-90% HR max.

    I am guessing zone 1 because it’s supposed to be real slow. Is that right?

    While I am at it, can anyone recommend any books, either on MAF or barefoot running in general?



    Thank you

    Brian
     

  2. migangelo

    migangelo Chapter Presidents
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    are those percentages from

    are those percentages from your watch? MAF training is 180 hb minus your age as the max and 10 below that for the minimum hr. we discuss more of it in another thread.

    for maf there's the "big book". bf there's a few. jason robillard, bf kenbob, michael sandler, and here!
     

  3. daidalas

    daidalas Barefooters

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    This article by Dr. Maffetone

    This article by Dr. Maffetone has everything you need to get started, best of luck!



    http://content.bandzoogle.com/users/cippianhotmail/files/Want_Speed_Slow_Down_2007.pdf
     
  4. saypay45

    saypay45 Chapter Presidents
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    The MAF formula is 180 minus

    The MAF formula is 180 minus your age. That's really all you need to know.
     
  5. Woodsman

    Woodsman Barefooters
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    Thanks for the info

    Thanks for the info everyone.

    I played around with my heart rate monitor a little on the tread mill tonight and my heart rate was all over the place, without too much perceived change in my effort. I had trouble hitting the sweet spot which for me is 140 BPM. Maybe it was because I did it after my resistance training. I’ll try again on the road tomorrow.
     

  6. BFwillie_g

    BFwillie_g Barefooters
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    saypay45 wrote:The MAF



    No, SP aka MGBG, that's all you need to know if all you intend to do is a half hour trot so you can put a check mark in the Maffetone column. There's a LOT more to it than that if you actually get into it.

    to the OP - Max HR plays no role and the relative pulse zones are not taken into consideration at all.
     

  7. saypay45

    saypay45 Chapter Presidents
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    Woah willie...don't get your

    Woah willie...don't get your heartrate up too high! You might go anaerobic! :davie:

    Though you chastize me every time I say that willie, I've read the book. It's a bunch of diet and lifestyle suggestions as well that you can get elsewhere for free. I get it.

    What you need to know...180 - age...good to go. There's your MAF lesson.

    If you ask me (and you didn't...but I'm telling you anyway), Maffetone spends way too much time on only one of the three energy systems. It's effective training for sure...if you have two years to improve your speed and don't mind being bored out of your mind the entire time. There's nothing bad about using the anaerobic or ATP system to train for endurance events. I does the same thing as MAF training in about a quarter of the time. You just have to rest appropriately and not train like an idiot.
     
  8. PKFFW

    PKFFW Barefooters

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    Something to think about is

    Something to think about is that doing Maff training whilst beginning barefoot running might not be the best mix. This is because for Maff training to really work you need to be putting in a fair bit of time. Of course any aerobic HR zone training will show benefits, however, if memory serves he suggests runs of at least an hour if not more and running 5-6 times a week in order to achieve good results. Doing that barefoot right from the start is certainly going to result in a whole heap of TMTS injuries.
     
  9. BFwillie_g

    BFwillie_g Barefooters
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    PKFFW wrote:Something to

    What you say maykes sense but the other side of the coin is that going slow and going barefoot go hand-in-hand, or foot-in-foot. So, for some runners, it's a good match.

    @Christian - don't sweat it, solicitor. It was just noodging ya ;)
     

  10. PKFFW

    PKFFW Barefooters

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    BFwillie_g wrote:What you

    Yes I agree going slow and going barefoot make a good match. I was referring more to the amount of running one really needs to do when Maff training in order to see good improvement in aerobic capacity. Running 5-6 hours a week barefoot right out of the blocks, even if you're running those hourse slowly, might lead to TMTS injuries.

    Just a consideration is all.
     
  11. Woodsman

    Woodsman Barefooters
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    Thanks. That is a very good

    Thanks. That is a very good point. I picked up the Big Book of Endurance Training from the Library as well as Ken Bob's barefoot book.

    I am only two days into the training, but I am supplementing the MAF training with other cardio-machines at the gym. As much as I hate working out indoors, it seems the best option for now. I'll be taking the running part slow.

    It looks like the weather might be above 45 here this week, If the snow melts, I am going to hit the gravel bike trail full barefoot. Should be interesting.
     

  12. Chaserwilliams

    Chaserwilliams Barefooters
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    Yeah, the big book is what i

    Yeah, the big book is what i recommend as well.

    And theres alot more to it than just 180-age. A whole lot.... Hence there being multiple books dedicated to it, not just one or two.

    And while yes, you could get faster results by just running fast, but Maffetone is more about long term success and health over short term gains. To me, being able to run fast while I'm an old fart is more important than running fast for a few years and not running again after that....
     
  13. migangelo

    migangelo Chapter Presidents
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    wow! wisdom and serious words

    wow! wisdom and serious words from chaser. i thought i'd never see the day.

    i'm doing same thing. learning to run so i can do it as long as i live, not for one race.
     

  14. saypay45

    saypay45 Chapter Presidents
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    If health is defined as

    If health is defined as having a really conditioned aerobic system and no anerobic or ATP system development...then yes, you'll be more healthy. Then when we're old, we'll all be slow regardless of what program we used because we're old.
     
  15. Jonny00GT

    Jonny00GT Chapter Presidents
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    Swag Ninja, could you break

    Swag Ninja, could you break down the ATP system as you'd apply it?

    So far, I started running with a comfortable conversational pace, enjoyed it and lost 30lbs in 4mo.

    Then I joined a running club and ran like hell to keep up and that was a different kind of fun and gained 4lbs in 7mo, but got faster and can run further.

    Now I'm trying to develop more of a base running slowish and lost 4lbs in 1mo using HR zones.

    I'm down for education and finding the right balance for me...

    -Jonny
     
  16. Woodsman

    Woodsman Barefooters
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    saypay45 wrote:If health is



    I definitely don’t want to do just MAF indefinitely; it just seemed like a good way keep from hurting myself while I adjust to barefoot/minimalist and not feel like I am losing too much ground in my training. I'll definately be back to some anerobic training in the near future. For now the 180-age HR is as good as any place for me to start. And if it helps me lose that little extra baggage I picked up over the holidays, I won't complain.
     

  17. saypay45

    saypay45 Chapter Presidents
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    The whole "run at your MAF

    The whole "run at your MAF rate or you'll get hurt" is a bit overblown. Heart rate is related to a lot of things, not just rate of exertion. I think Maffetone has done a great job in developing a formula that does a better job of correlating heart rate to exertion than the traditional heart rate chart, but still.

    Just run man. Your feet will tell you when to stop, not your heartrate.
     
  18. saypay45

    saypay45 Chapter Presidents
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    Jonny, the ATP system is the

    Jonny, the ATP system is the energy system that deals with a very high level of exertion for a very short period of time (we're talking around 10 seconds or less). So you exercise it by doing things like sprinting, or lifting very heavy weights for low reps (1 rep max).

    The notion that you can separate energy systems like Maffetone claims isn't realistic. Running will always involve at least some anaerobic energy, and doing high speed activities like sprinting are actually pretty aerobic. All Maffetone does is push your anaerobic threshold (the point where you are more anaerobic than aerobic) higher. You do the same thing with high-speed interval training, you just do it faster.

    The real issue Maffetone method addresses is overtraining. People go too hard too often for too long and end up hurt. You can do the same thing Maffetone does in a much more protracted period of time by being smart about your training, and not doing too much interval training too soon (sound like a familiar mantra).
     
  19. migangelo

    migangelo Chapter Presidents
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    he doesn't claim that they're

    he doesn't claim that they're seperate systems that you can tap. he says slow down so you tap into your aerobic system. no matter what you do you always start in your anaerobic zone. going slow will allow your body time to switch to your aerobic system which will burn fat for as long as you can go. anaerobic appears to have a limit of around an hour and a half. by using his method to race if you're in your aerobic zone the first third/half of the race you'll have gas left in the tank to turn it on for the last part with out bonking.
     

  20. BFwillie_g

    BFwillie_g Barefooters
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    saypay45 wrote:Just run

    I don't know. I think that advice/approach is a major cause of most people's problems. I mean, the people who have problems. And once again, SP, you're characterising MAF as just 'run slow to become slow' but by your admission you should know he gets into a lot more than that. I'm not a disciple, btw, I just like the guy. He makes a lot of good statements on many topics, not just sports and food.

    Anyway, Maffetone posted a new article about his non-method at his website:


    What Exactly Is The Maffetone Method?
    And, hey, it even includes the acronym 'ATP'! :D
     

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