Keto/Fat enabled running

Discussion in 'Training Information/Training Regimens' started by Barefoot Terry, Oct 23, 2017.

  1. Barefoot Terry

    Barefoot Terry
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    Anyone out there doing keto or Fat-enabled running as promoted by Phil Maffetone or others like him?
     
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  2. flammee

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    Tried, didn't work. No spectacular crashes, just low energy and bad recovery. Never felt like running longer.
     
  3. Barefoot Terry

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    Were you also doing the heart rate training? Or were you just following the Keto Diet?
     
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  4. flammee

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    Only keto diet, just few low heart rate runs until motivation died off. :bored: At summers low heart rate running is so slow that I can't outrun mosquitos and at winter it gets too cold.
     
  5. Barefoot Terry

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    Thanks for your input. I’m almost 2 months into HR training and keto. Will see how it goes at my 24 hr race in Dec
     
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  6. Gordon

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    Long-term keto dieting can cause quite a number of issues. It might be worth doing in the run-up to your A race(if it's an ultra) to improve your fat-burning, but be careful otherwise. At the very least, do some diligence so you know what problems to watch for ...
     
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  7. trevize1138

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    Don't know if I'll ever go as far as Keto but I did work to become fat adapted this summer and am really liking the results. I'm not "bonk proof" yet but maybe that takes more time. Still, I do seem to go quite a lot longer before bonking so something's working. I did successfully reduce my easy breathing pace from 12:00 to 9:30 (my Maffetone Method aerobic threshold is 136). I also lost the middle age spread and am back to my 21yo weight at the age of 44. I've never really had much of a sweet tooth or huge love for bread and pasta so perhaps it wasn't as big of a change for me as compared to others.

    I'm still recovering from Sunday's marathon but once I do I'll be switching up my training to incorporate more speed and tempo runs as I've really just focused on building that aerobic base. Now that's been nicely achieved so I want to build up speed to get my easy breathing pace even lower.

    To really know if it's going to work for you requires a bit of time. Most people feel really sluggish at first and especially if they bail on the aerobic base building too early. I'd say give it at least 2-3 months and never let your HR get over your aerobic threshold during that time to actually see what it does/doesn't do for you.
     
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  8. Barefoot Terry

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    Thanks, Gordon! I am doing a lot of reading. I don't think I'm going Keto long term, but I've definitely been able to kick my sweet tooth (Pepsi addiction) along with the eating of lots of processed foods. I will make sure I look into the risks a bit more closely.
     
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  9. Barefoot Terry

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    So, my MAF is also 136 since we are the same age, 44. My biggest struggle has been keeping the heart rate down under 136 (140). I can comfortably run a 12 min mile breathing through my nose only - not working very hard. My race pace is normally around 9 minute +/- mile. However, my heart rate spikes up to 145/150 when I'm under 15 min/mile, unless I slow down to about a 17 minute mile. Maybe I need to allow myself to exhale out through my mouth? I'm barely "running" at this point (17-18 min mile). I'm willing to commit to long slow training runs, but it is frustrating. I'm also wondering if maybe my heart rate monitor just sucks - probably not, since it is a chest strap which is supposed to be more reliable than a wrist monitor.

    I try to do one high-intensity workout or run every week or two just to stretch things. I've been at this about 2 months now. Energy levels are fine on the run also. My hope is that all of the slow training will pay off at higher paces. I'm shooting for a 24 hour run on New Year's Eve. So, will ultimately see how things pan out then. Until then, if you have further advice, I'm all ears!

    Thanks again!
     
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  10. trevize1138

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    HRMs can be a bit tempermental and it sounds like you're getting some false readings. I've gotten used to how mine is registering my steps/minute for the first mile or so of my runs because I *know* my HR isn't jumping to 175-185 just one minute in at 10:00 pace. Sure enough, as mile 1 approaches it's always calming back down to the 124 range. That's thanks to my sweat finally making a good connection between my skin and the HRM. You could try putting water on the contacts just before your run, too. Or, if you're not grossed out by it, just spitting on them.

    More info here: https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2010/04/troubleshooting-your-heart-rate.html

    Assuming you've got the monitor working smoothly I'd breathe through your mouth as you really only need to breathe through your nose as a cheap replacement for your HRM and you might be needlessly depriving yourself of oxygen which could also increase your HR. If your race pace is around 9 minutes a mile then 12 minute pace sounds right.

    I used to mindlessly just go out and push 9 minute pace for 5-6 miles a day which resulted in getting down to about 8:30 pace after a couple months. Of course, all that did was stress me out entirely every time I went for a run and my pace was a bit slower than the previous day's. Now I've gotten my easy pace down from 12-13 to just under 10. A couple times I've done a mile in 9:10 below my MAF. That's when I get all excited: "Woo! 9:10!" [beep beep beep] goes the HRM because my excitement spiked my HR :)
     
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  11. Gordon

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    This is kinda weird. Easy nose breathing should roughly correspond to MAF. Ditto on the double-check for monitor accuracy. What happens if you walk? A comfortable fast walk should be around 14min/mile for someone with with a 32" inseam. It would be interesting to see what your HR does walking at that pace(or the equivalent for your leg length). Have you tested your maximum HR? MAF is a bit of a wet finger in the air and if your max HR is unusually high, your crossover HR might be higher than 180-age.
     
  12. Barefoot Terry

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    Thanks Gordon and Trevize,

    Had a couple of busy days. Going to try and go out for a run tonight. I’m going to check on getting the sensor wet (spit or otherwise). I agree that I should be able to walk a 14 min pace without breaking MAF. Going to check my breathing tonight as well. Additionally, I’m going to research my HRM to see if it sucks hahaha. I got it as a gift and it is not likely to be a high quality one. Will update you guys tonight or tomorrow. I appreciate the input.
     
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  13. Barefoot Terry

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    A bit better yesterday on the run. Got into the 12-13 minute range. HRM a little jumpy. I added water to the sensor as suggested. I think I just need to work on being as smooth and consistent on my pace and breathing to keep my HR stable for the duration of my runs.
     
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  14. trevize1138

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    Keep experimenting! If it just doesn't seem to "settle down" maybe look into a new battery. You can always test things out by taking your pulse the old fashioned way every mile to see if the readings are at least in the ballpark of accurate.
     
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