Is it MN, form and/or "normal"?

Piggyback RidePlease

Barefooters
Nov 13, 2010
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1
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I'm starting barefoot very slooooowwwwwly to avoid TMTS that had repeatedly nailed me while shod.

I have just done a couple of weeks of simply walking about barefoot around the house, minimal shoes outside plus a few mini walks on some rough stuff.

After my last barefoot walk (all 600-ish metres of it!) on an outdoor cycle track (tarmac/very small stones & a little other debris) I noticed a little soreness under the ball of each foot near the 2nd metatarsal joint.

Since then I've minimised my barefoot exposure to rough stuff & just walked about the house barefoot or in socks. Obviously nothing remotely radical!

Today I moved onto stage 2 of "the plan" and did my 1st on the spot running for 30 seconds. I did this on a smooth-ish concrete floor.

Trying to find what the pain in the balls of my feet could be I discovered that I probably have mild(?) Morton's toe (2nd metatarsal knuckle about ~5-10 mm infront of the one for my big toe). Obviously this suggests that the discomfort in the ball of my feet could be early Morton's neuroma.

I've read that one way to minimise problems with MN is to have high cadence so when doing my on the spot run I went as fast as I could. My heels rarely had the time to touch down (but I was trying to do this relaxed & not landing "up" on the toes).

My questions is:

Does this discomfort sounds like it is Morton's neuroma (& if so what should/shouldn't I be doing)?

Or is this a problem with form perhaps related to trying too hard to get max cadence?

Or is this just a typical "normal" pain that you'd expect anyone to get this early trying barefoot?
 
Nyal, "dun dun dun", is that

Nyal, "dun dun dun", is that a tune?

I've been through all the posts here and some seem to confirm some things which is why I have the comments I made in this thread to start with. I've not managed to reach a conclusion and being a BF beginner I'm easily confused!

If you have something useful to add please do.
 
Piggyback RidePlease

Piggyback RidePlease said:
Does this discomfort sounds like it is Morton's neuroma (& if so what should/shouldn't I be doing)?

Or is this a problem with form perhaps related to trying too hard to get max cadence?

Or is this just a typical "normal" pain that you'd expect anyone to get this early trying barefoot?

I can't help with the Morton's question, but others here have experience with that.

Regarding your cadence question, I suppose if you are simply trying to hit a high cadence, then you might not be running lightly enough, and if your feet were slapping the ground (especially on concrete), maybe that would cause discomfort.

I don't think there is "normal" pain. Most of us have had pain at some point(s) in our journey, but "typically" if a newbie has foot pain, it is either from TMTS or a form issue.

Remember:

High Cadence (at least 180)

Bent knees

Take it slow

Relax

Have fun! :)
 
Work on your form some

Work on your form some more. It's too early to tell if you have MN. Give it another three weeks or so to see if the pain diminishes or gets worse. You may have Morton's Toe though, which could cause the pain at the 2nd metty that you describe. Are you developing any callusing at that point. I'm surprised that Nyal didn't comment more. He is the MT king around here, but I am the MN queen.
 
Hi Barefoot TJ,Under the 2nd

Hi Barefoot TJ,

Under the 2nd metty is the thickest calloused area I have (although there's not much in it).

I'm sure I'd come across Nyals sticky on MT before I'd realised that it applied to me. I have since re-read it, (after looking at the posts in the "health..." section) and there's lots of very interesting stuff. My big toe is a tiny bit larger than the 2nd but I checked the knuckles which I gather is the key identifier & the 2nd knuckle is ahead by 5 - 10mm.

I also note from Nyals sticky that hard stuff like asphelt or concrete are to be treated with extra caution and this leads me to wonder if there is any more specific "good" surface information about how to get going if you suspect MT & you're a beginner. It sounds like I should be avoiding those "hard & smooth" man made surfaces but from other threads I gather that I should not be fooling myself by picking something like grass because it will be too easy to over do the distance/time.

So, thinking about what I should sensibly be able to try, around my area I can think of places that have:

1) Mown grass, e.g. football pitches. Probably not too much hard stuff in other than rubbish.

2) Short grass, e.g. pasture where cows etc. have nibbled it. Certainly has stones in it.

3) Muddy trails with random size stones.

4) Brighton beach which is made of very deep pebbles probably around 2 - 3cm across, mostly smooth but with a few places where they are perhaps nearer 5mm across. Not much sand at all.

5) There are also a couple of man made trails covered in packed rough looking stones with some perhaps 1 -2 cm across and other areas where they are larger. This looks like it would be a serious work out for near virgin feet!

6) Annoyingly there seem to be lots of otherwise ideal man made (asphelt/concrete etc.) surfaces that you'd expect in any city.

Any suggestions on what would be a recommended choice (taking into account that all I'm doing is 30 seconds on the spot BF running a few times a day, adding 15 seconds the next day if no worries) would be of great interest. I am currently BF + thin socks & the discomfort is mild - I can feel something there but with the socks it's no longer sore.

I am sort of glad you say that it is early days to say if there's a problem (since it sounds like assorted pains are to be expected to some extent) as I don't want to have to take drastic action so early (but also don't want to TMTS so it's a tricky one to play with the ever present :evil: devil on the shoulder saying "go on, do more, do more" as that's what I really want to do!
 
I have MT, and I can run on

I have MT, and I can run on asphalt and concrete without it being a problem. Some other people have MT, and the harder surfaces are a problem. My problems come from MN. Walking or running on soft stuff causes the nerves in my feet to fire, so I prefer to stick to trails or roads. Sand and grass are out.

Everyone is different, so you have to first determine if your having MT is actually causing you a problem. It may or may not. The only way to truly know is to repeat the process all over again, that is run on the hard stuff. Do this two or three more runs to determine if the hard stuff is indeed causing problems for you. At the same time, try to figure out if your form may be contributing to pain, and experiment to see if you can alter your lift-off, stride, and landing to see if that helps. If it does help, then form is most likely your problem. If it doesn't, then you may have to settle for the softer stuff, like Nature Runner does. The problem is working on form corrections will take more than two or three runs to get it right, so you may want to try it for a few weeks first.

Good luck!
 
 BTW, the dun dun dun is the

BTW, the dun dun dun is the noise that plays in the background when someone finds out they have MT.

Do not despair, new friend, the Fellowship has a crack team of scientists working on the case! For now I suggest that you experiment a little. Try many different kinds of surfaces and try to learn what you are good at etc. Just keep an eye on the situation and watch for the callouses. Good luck!
 
 I have been researching why

I have been researching why my 2nd toe feels like it is going to burst through the end when I land when running. It gets bad enough that I have to wear minimal shoes lately. I don't have a longer toe and cant tell if the bone is longer but I calous at the spot on my forefoot between my big and 2nd toe.

Where is the sticky that was mentioned above?
 
Hi Angie Bee,Oh no, well I

Hi Angie Bee,

Oh no, well I hope the thread helps, it certainly tries to address a fair few aspect of this problem.

The Morton's toe / neuroma sticky is in the "Barefoot & minimalist running" thread rather than the health thread.

Good luck with it, the jury is still out for me but then I've been doing little more than padding about the house BF which is hardly stressing things yet... but I'm building up to it & trying to keep all "niggles"/aches & pains to an trivial level in the deperate hope that I don't end up with year off again (due to repeated plantar fasciitis when shod).

:santa: