Huaraches as tools in ultras

[Alejandro 10]

Running ultras in huaraches has been done; Tarahumara, many Luna Monkeys and others. It seems to me that the majority of the races those examples are running tend to be in dry conditions. Maybe I am wrong about that. Which brings me to my questions.

1. If you are running long distances and using shoes as a tool for that purpose which are you using? Why?
2. At what point do you decide that you should use... say a Merrell Trail Glove/NB Minimus Zero over Luna's Leadville/Leather Branca?

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Last Place Jason]

My criteria:

What is the surface?
How technical is the course?
How wet/muddy is the course?

If the race is on pavement or anything else flat and hard, I'd consider huaraches. For very long distances (over 100), I'd consider a cushioned shoe like the Bare Access. If the race is a trail race, I'll use trail shoes. For non-technical to moderately technical trails, I'll use something like the Trail Glove. For extremely technical trails or mildly technical trails at night, I'll use something more substantial like the Mix Master. For mud and/or wet conditions, I'd use one of the two previously-mentioned shoes.

The biggest drawback of huaraches has to do with the lack of protection late in a race. As fatigue sets in, stubbing your toes becomes an issue. Huaraches offer no protection. Having said that, I did run the last 67 miles in a pair of InvisibleShoes, but the course wasn't terribly technical. You're right about wet conditions... huaraches seriously suck. The mud between the sole and footbed make them wayyyy too slippery.

 

[Alejandro 10]

Jason,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Would you hypothesis that those successfully running ultras in huaraches have excellent aerobic fitness developed which might make the fatigue issues less drastic? You know, I think that there is something off about that question. I know that Ted, Bookis and the other Luna Monkeys are not actually doing much in the way of training. Speculating here, but maybe that is something they do (i.e. run exclusively in huaraches), in part, to market.

In your experience are the Naked Top Lunas and Stephen's Invisible Shoes really any better in wet conditions than their suede or leather top counterparts? I'm wondering too about the better chance of one's feet being able to dry when wearing a huarache while running. Even using as much mess as the Trail Glove and the Minimus Trail do I find myself still thinking one is more likely to run into wet feet issues.

This is where some of the experiment of one thoughts start to come into play. Isn't it?

Thanks again!


P.S. Good luck at the Bighorn!

 

[bubba hotep]

Basically what Jason said. However, I only have 3 options in my "tool box" and don't have an unlimited shoe supply like Jason. I've only attempted one race barefoot and probably won't do that again. I usually race in NB110 but if the course is dry and non-technical then I'll use my Luna sandals.

 

[bubba hotep]

Jason,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Would you hypothesis that those successfully running ultras in huaraches have excellent aerobic fitness developed which might make the fatigue issues less drastic? You know, I think that there is something off about that question. I know that Ted, Bookis and the other Luna Monkeys are not actually doing much in the way of training. Speculating here, but maybe that is something they do (i.e. run exclusively in huaraches), in part, to market.

In your experience are the Naked Top Lunas and Stephen's Invisible Shoes really any better in wet conditions than their suede or leather top counterparts? I'm wondering too about the better chance of one's feet being able to dry when wearing a huarache while running. Even using as much mess as the Trail Glove and the Minimus Trail do I find myself still thinking one is more likely to run into wet feet issues.

This is where some of the experiment of one thoughts start to come into play. Isn't it?

Thanks again!


P.S. Good luck at the Bighorn!

I think the distinction needs to be made b/w 50 / 100k and 100 mile races. I think you more much more likely to successfully finish a 50 or 100k in huaraches because you won't be as fatigued and you won't be doing much, if any, running in the dark.



However, I do plan to run a portion of the Cactus Rose 100 in my Luna sandals. I plan to run the 2nd loop (miles 25 - 50) in them. My thinking is that that will give my feet a break from shoes and force me to slow down a bit and not overexert myself during the hottest part of the day.

 

[Last Place Jason]

Thanks, I'm looking forward to starting the race. A little over 16 hours to the start!

Ted and Bookis use the same basic approach I do... build a good endurance base and maintain it with occasional runs and long races. There's nothing really different between the efficiency of barefoot, huaraches, or minimalist shoes... it's much more about terrain.

All huaraches suck in wet, slippery conditions (like mud), but excel in high humidity or dry courses with water crossings. The open design allows your feet to stay much drier than shoes. The problem with moisture comes from the slipperiness of the foot bed. I've tried both rubber-topped Invisible Shoes and suede Lunas. The suede feels better, but both are terrible in slick conditions.

I should mention- I also don't like huaraches on courses with long descents.The strap between the first and second toe cuts the hell out of my foot after going down for a few miles.

Bubba- it will be interesting to see how many people try a barefoot ultra in the near future. Where's Chase? I want to goad him into a barefoot 100...

 

[Last Place Jason]

I think the distinction needs to be made b/w 50 / 100k and 100 mile races. I think you more much more likely to successfully finish a 50 or 100k in huaraches because you won't be as fatigued and you won't be doing much, if any, running in the dark.

However, I do plan to run a portion of the Cactus Rose 100 in my Luna sandals. I plan to run the 2nd loop (miles 25 - 50) in them. My thinking is that that will give my feet a break from shoes and force me to slow down a bit and not overexert myself during the hottest part of the day.

Bubba- I agree. Huaraches in the daylight are much easier.

I think they'd be a good option for daylight running at Cactus Rose, especially if they're of the Leadville variety. The hills aren't long and the rocks, though rugged as hell, are easy to navigate. Are you planning on using MT110s as the other shoes? The change from 4mm to zero drop will slightly change the muscles used, which can be an added benefit, too.

 

[bubba hotep]

Bubba- it will be interesting to see how many people try a barefoot ultra in the near future. Where's Chase? I want to goad him into a barefoot 100...

Yeah, I think for me a "bf ultra" would be more of a novelty event at this point, esp. since my focus this coming season will be actually running faster times and setting PRs. Chase has been slacking and hasn't been running much. He posts on the List all the time but I don't know why he is avoiding his blog and this place. He insist that he is running Rocky 100 bf. Now, if chase and you were to show up at RR 100 without shoes... I certainly couldn't let y'all show me up!

 

[bubba hotep]

Bubba- I agree. Huaraches in the daylight are much easier.

I think they'd be a good option for daylight running at Cactus Rose, especially if they're of the Leadville variety. The hills aren't long and the rocks, though rugged as hell, are easy to navigate. Are you planning on using MT110s as the other shoes? The change from 4mm to zero drop will slightly change the muscles used, which can be an added benefit, too.

I'll just be using the old fashion traditional ones, unless Pat can hook me up with a free pair of Leadvilles. I've run out there before in them and don't think it will be an issue. I am heading out there next weekend and plan to get in 50 - 75 miles and do at least 25 of those in the traditional. I've been thinking about the change in drop lately and will probably put something up on my blog about it. I run about half of my miles bf and then I split the rest b/w the 10mm 101 and the 4mm 110. I can't help but think that constant changing is ever so slightly working different muscles and thus providing some kind of benefit.

 

[Alejandro 10]

Chase has been slacking and hasn't been running much. He posts on the List all the time but I don't know why he is avoiding his blog and this place. He insist that he is running Rocky 100 bf. Now, if chase and you were to show up at RR 100 without shoes... I certainly couldn't let y'all show me up!

Let it be duly noted that he's been hanging out on the list quite a bit the last few months. I might be wrong about this, but wasn't he coming off an injury?

Bubba - I hadn't even thought about the night time factor. Ignorance is bliss!

Jason - You mentioned the toes strap rubbing your foot raw. Do any of the shoes you mentioned do something similar but in different parts of your feet? Would that be a reason to wear socks? I hope you can get some sleep tonight. At least you aren't awaiting a bugle blast to let you know when Gary is going to take a drag off his cigarette!

Thanks to both of you for your insights.

 

[NickW]

Jason, have you tried the Unshoes Pah Tempe? From what I hear they excel on downhills and are pretty dang good even in muddy or wet conditions although I have no experience with that particular sandal. Might be an idea if you feel you could run an ultra in huaraches if it wasn't for the slippery footbed or the downhills.

 

[Last Place Jason]

Nick- I haven't tried the Unshoes but have tried a pair of sandals that were similar. They do keep your foot in place a little better but still have all the drawbacks of open-toed footwear.

Honestly, sandals of any type are overrated for technical trails. Their best feature is the breathability. Other than that, they're not nearly as utilitarian on trails over distance as a closed-toe shoe. We (the barefoot community) have a tendency to glamorize huaraches. Remember, the Tarahumara don't use them because they're the best footwear in the world. They use them because they're dirt poor.

 

[NickW]

Oh I get your point Jason, I was just curious. Doesn't Pat Sweeny(sp?) run in Lunas and do ultras? I don't really know much about him, I just seem to remember Luna says stuff about him every now and then.

 

[Last Place Jason]

Oh I get your point Jason, I was just curious. Doesn't Pat Sweeny(sp?) run in Lunas and do ultras? I don't really know much about him, I just seem to remember Luna says stuff about him every now and then.

Yes, and Pat's crazy fast. He doesn't usually run really technical trail races, though. The terrain he races on is ideal for Lunas, especially in that climate (So. Cal., desert SW). For those specific conditions, the huaraches become a pretty valuable tool.

 

[NickW]

Oh ok, thanks Jason. I can't seem to find a shoe that doesn't hurt the hell out of my feet after a couple of miles and huaraches seem to be the only footwear I've found that I can run in for quite awhile. Not that I'm up to ultra distance yet but I hate to have hopes crushed before I even get to that point... So in other words make sure when I get to that point to find easier less technical ultras to run.

 

[NickW]

Oh and goodluck Jason!

 

[Last Place Jason]

For some races, huaraches would be great. For example, Pat and i had a discussion about using them for Badwater... relatively flat, smooth surface in extreme heat. In that case, they'd be a prefect tool.

 

[Chaserwilliams]

I think it depends on terrain and conditions...

Rocky will be bare for me. And 2013 Im shooting for the 100, bare if the weather provides.

On most road courses Id go bare as thats my preference.

Badwater is a dream of mine, and Ill wear huaraches in those dreams.

The only other dream race is The Barkley Marathons... I would probablly wear Trail Gloves. Too much elevation for huaraches, and too many sawbriars for barefoot.

 

[mokaman]

Hey Chaser,

How rocky is Rocky Raccoon?

 

[Chaserwilliams]

Theres one stretch of about 100 feet thats got some crushed concrete and asphalt, thats about it. I really dont get why it was named that. Maybe "Gently Rolling Raccoon" would have been better.