how to train for a long distance

Discussion in 'Barefoot & Minimalist Running' started by RacePunk, Jun 24, 2014.

  1. RacePunk

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    Hi,
    is it different to train for a marathon in Vibram Fife Fingers than in regular running shoes. I use those for ca. one year but I never did more than 12 miles. My only marathon before I used regular shoes.
    So do I just cover miles or should I think about some special things to care about.
    Thanks, the RacePunk
     
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  2. skedaddle

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    Yes it's way different and potentially harmful.
    Best advice is to ditch the shoes completely at first to strengthen your feet and to get the sensory feedback you need to iron out any kinks in your form. You can't do this in Vibrams or any other kind of minimalist shoe, you need skin to ground.
    Take things sloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow and smile a lot :).
    I think these are the universal truths in BF running, beyond that it's down to personal genetics how your form develops, but opening yourself up to the idea and importance of sensory feedback will help you achieve more natural and ultimately healthy running form.
    Blisters may develop so you adjust to compensate, heal striking no longer seems a good idea so you land more mid foot, where have my brakes gone when running down hill? is a question that may come to mind........ You get the idea, it really is no more complicated than that but it will take time as you gradually work through things and you're body adjusts, so be patient.
     
  3. RacePunk

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    Thanks for the answer, so I just stay with it and see how it feels:)
     
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  4. DNEchris

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    That's probably a good plan - enjoy the journey!
     
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  5. RacePunk

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    Hi,
    today was a really warm Seattle day 82°F so I did a nice barefoot run around Greenlake, approx. 2,8 Miles. And something went terribly wrong:
    [​IMG]

    So what did I wrong this time, was it to hot on asphalt or the distance too long? A week ago I run 5 Miles barefoot and everything was fine.
    Has somebody some ideas or ist that the way barefoot running works?
    Thanks, the RacePunk
     
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  6. DNEchris

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    Pushing the pace too much?
    Pushing off with each stride rather than placing and then lifting each foot?
    I don't think temperature will have been a factor.
     
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  7. RacePunk

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    Pushing the pace might be, for my running I was pretty fast, sub 20 minutes.
    When I can walk again I try it slower.
     
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  8. Sid

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    Blood blisters? I think that I had a few in the beginning. I think it was due to stepping on something hard and sharp, and not shifting my weight off it quickly enough.

    I don't think that it's about toughening the feet. At least one was under a thick callus.

    I don't get them anymore, even when running on gravel. I suspect that my reflexes/sensitivity may be sharper, now. If I feel something uncomfortable under one part of my foot, I can immediately shift my weight to a different part.

    I suppose that pushing off too hard could cause the same thing. I think that with experience, barefoot runners develop more sensitive feet and are better able to sense the ground beneath them, allowing them to make small adjustments with each step. Any skill that requires manual dexterity often has a similar learning curve.
     
  9. I-Did-It (Steve)

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    Looks like too much pushing off...like Chris said...try to focus on lifting strait up as if you were running in place, but with a forward lean to create forward momemtum...and focus your attention on the 'lift' not the landing of the foot...get the feet off the ground as early in the stride as possible...and no worries, my feet looked much worse than yours after the first time I tried to push the pace, without good barefoot form yet, on hot pavement...it will heal and you will be grateful fir those blisters, cause they will force you to examine and improve your form.

    Haha....Nothing like acute pain to to focus your attention on not doing what caused the pain any more lol

    Don't let the feet totally heal before running again, go out while they are still a bit tender, cause you will only be able to run one way without a lot of pain on tender feet, and that one way is pretty close to the 'right way' for you...tender feet can be a great training aid to enforce good form.
     
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  10. skedaddle

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    Congrats on you first blister, this is actually a good thing and part of a process that we've all been through.

    Check you are not gripping the road with your toes, a common symptom of blood blisters in that area.

    Don't be afraid to run on some rougher surfaces at the beginning of a run, this will help to reduce stride length, increase cadence and encourage you to step lightly.

    Check your mind set, you're not running in shoes so don't expect to carry the same shod form over to the barefoot world. It's so easy to spot a barefoot runner in a pack of shod runners, not by the lack of shoes but by the form.
     
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  11. RacePunk

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    Hi,
    thanks for the answers. Maybe I should pay more attention on the way I run. Usually I have my music with about 120 to 160 bpm to run with and that makes my stride length. This time I had nothing and so I run different. And I for sure will not stop running barefoot just because of blisters. But if possible I want to avoid them in future.
    Is there a different way to run on gravel or is it just training not feeling the rough surface?
    The RacePunk
     
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  12. DNEchris

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    Run lightly! You may have to put your music away but make sure your feet land silently. Shorter, quicker steps may help with that.
     
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  13. skedaddle

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    You want to be looking at 180bpm cadence
    http://www.goodformrunning.com/180-cadence-file

    And this video from the same site, although he's wearing minimal shoes, is pretty much the technique i adopt and i think is standard fayer amongst barefooters.
    http://www.goodformrunning.com/4-points-video

    So get your base technique down first at a slow, relaxed pace, without shoes, and then gradually start building up to specific race targets, times and training regimes.
    At that stage, if you need to adopt minimal shoes, you will be running with the correct form which i think answers your initial question, but for road running i don't think you'll feel the need for them.

    Hope that helps to simplify things some.
     
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  14. Bare Lee

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    If you run faster, there's more abrading, no way to get around that. Sounds to me like it's just a simple case of too much too soon. Personally, I think most form advice--high cadence, lifting the feet, and so on--is silly, but listen to the others if it helps. I think the best form advice is to run faster, which forces you to adopt biomechanically efficient technique, but that doesn't work too well until your plantar and toe calluses have had time to develop, or until your aerobic capacity has developed. So maybe try a slower pace but mix in a few stints of higher velocity, to get a feel for good form. I've been running fartleks a lot for the last several weeks, and it's a great way to go, although I'm beginning to miss my long steady runs. Also, as Sid suggested, running on rough surfaces is also a great teacher of good form. It'll slow you down, but it's great for developing a gentle foot-landing. With a good foot-landing, and good posture, everything else will follow. If it doesn't, then it might behoove you to look into the form cues and techniques the others have been suggesting, but give your calluses a chance to thicken first! That might be all there is to it.
     
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  15. Sid

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    I also think that patience is also important for neuromuscular development, muscle memory, reflexes, etc.
    For example, such development is key when one first learns how to ride a bicycle, swim, write, etc.

    Lee Saxby talks about skillful vs unskillful barefoot running.
    See time 8:42


    My feet aren't a whole lot tougher than when I first attempted a gravel trail, however after working on it diligently, I developed the ability to run skillfully on it.
     
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  16. RacePunk

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    Hi,
    today walking seems to be good again, so I will go for a fast walk on forest trails tomorrow at Olympic peninsula. Maybe a short run. I always run only so far that I still feel good, I hardly understand why I didn't feel the blisters while running. So lets see what the next days bring. I keep running barefoot and train walking barefoot most time.
    The RacePunk
     
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