Hi from Germany

Welcome, Jake.  We lived in

Welcome, Jake. We lived in Stuttgart in the mid-90's for 3 years and loved every minute. In fact, I'm looking at the possibility of going back to Germany if I can get a job there.

I'm with the "more runs, less distance/time, with healing time (8-12 hours ideally for me) between sessions to allow the soles of your feet to thicken and acclimate to direct contact. The ideal course of foot development from my experience would be to go for a 0.5- to 1-mile barefoot run each morning and evening for several weeks, not adding distance until you get comfortable with your feet.

In the meantime, any runs for which you feel compelled to go longer, run in VFFs, but be careful not to push the pace faster than you would be able to maintain without shoes. I like the VFFs for the protection they provide, but they do encourage and allow you to get a little sloppy on your form without any real negative consequences. Keeping actively aware of that fact has helped them become a valuable tool for me, although I know others here would burn every pair in a huge bonfire if they could.

You'll eventually figure out what works best for you, so try different tools and methods and advice until you're in your own BFR sweet spot, being careful not to hurt yourself along the way.
 
AJB - Sounds like you have a

AJB - Sounds like you have a good working system. Switching between the Frees and BF has worked pretty well for me, too. I'm still torn, though, because so many people on this thread have been suggesting to go 100% barefoot and "listen" to my feet. I think I'm going to do it. I'll up the amount I bike each week if possible to make up for the lost miles.

I'll report back as to how its going. Thanks again.
 
Phil - Thanks for the

Phil - Thanks for the welcome. Stuttgart is a nice place. I get through there quite a bit. How's your German? Did you pick up some?

As for the BFR, you guys on this thread are all convincing me quickly. I think I'll just finally ditch the Frees altogether. I'm very cautious with the VFF, because I've already been through the stress fracture fun this summer with those. My own stupid fault for not learning the right form and realizing how weak my feet were/are.
 
 Willkommen in Deutschland,

Willkommen in Deutschland, jake.

It would seem that there are two of us running barefoot in the Rheinland. We need three to create a club (Verein) according to German law, but perhaps the BRS would allow us to form a "Germany Chapter".

Allow me to introduce myself to everyone.

I have been living in Bonn for about 10 years (originally from Utah). I came here originally with my (German) wife as I was finish my Ph.D in European history. I switched careers in 2003 and am now in consulting.

An avid cyclist for many years, I started running to keep up my fitness during the winter. At some point I noticed that I was really enjoying it. As my work demands made long cycling distances less and less possible, I started running more and more.

In 2006 and 2007 I started running with minimalist shoes according to the pose technique. A stress fracture in my fibia and injury to the peroneal tendons (and work demands) put me off running for a couple of years. I have now restarted running, going barefoot 4-5 times a week whenever the ground is dry (to avoid blisters). When it is not, I pull out my minimalist shoes, or I take a break for the day.

My theory was, I needed to build up my feet and ankles, but very slowly so as to prevent re-injury. Best to go barefoot from the beginning and allow my skin to keep me from doing too much too soon. I now simply love it, and dread the days I have to run in shoes. I am still only running up to about 6km (30 min.), but I am increasing slowly but surely and--best of all--without injury.

To your question, Jake....

My personal view is that the "Barefoot shoe" is an oxymoron. It is a shoe, not barefoot. Running in any shoe, even huaraches is not barefoot, since the feedback through the skin is missing. There are many benefits to running in minimalist shoes (over running in balloon shoes), but it still isn't barefoot.

I personally believe that the best way to transition is to forget you ever were a runner. Start out with a couple of hundred meters, max. Let your skin tell you how much is too much. Don't combine it with runs in regular shoes. Rather, get on the bike, hit the pool, go to the sports studio and lift some weights, even go home and crack open a beer. But, let your running become pure barefoot running. I find that just one or two days in my minimalist shoes is enough to compromise my form.

The problem you will face in the Rheinland in the winter is that it rains, a lot - especially in November. It rains more in Düsseldorf than in Bonn. I am already dreading the coming months, since I will have to run much more in shoes. My skin is just not quite up to running in the wet (if that ever comes). I tried it once and got really bad blisters.

I also prefer to run alone (at least most of the time). For me, it is my quiet time to myself, and I can just concentrate on my form and go my own pace. I would, therefore, recommend you do your barefoot runs alone--perhaps on the off days, when you are not running with your buddies.



Cheers,

Jamie



P.S. Paleo is what my wife calls me since I have started running in a "paleontological" style.
 
Welcome, Paleo!  We do have a

Welcome, Paleo! We do have a forum for Germany set up, and we do have a few others here from Germany as well. Once Andy gets settled after selling his house and moving, we are hoping to start the process of opening (or at least sponsoring) international chapters under the BRS logo.
 
That's funny, Paleo is such a

That's funny, Paleo is such a hot word from the diet, I wouldn't have thought to call barefoot running that, but hey why not.

Welcome Jamie!
 
Willkommen Paleo!  Hey, great

Willkommen Paleo! Hey, great to find another barefoot transplant over here. This German Verein (club) may actually get off the ground yet.

Good advice on the BFR. I am going to dump the shoes completely for my runs. Had a quick run last night, and despite the cold, it felt great.

Yeah, the rain may be the one thing that finally drives me out of this country, or at least the Dusseldorf area. Sun is so seldom. I did run once immediately after a rain barefoot on the asphalt, and after about 2km the bottoms of my feet were completely exfoliated. It didn't hurt, but it was like someone took a cheese grater to the bottom of my feet. Is this normal? Do you think BFR on asphalt in wet weather is a no-go?
 
BFR in wet weather is a treat

BFR in wet weather is a treat IMO. Skipping through puddles without having to worry about soggy shoes is a lot of fun! It does require a little care though, you have to make sure you're really lifting your feet without slipping or it won't be exactly pleasant since, as you've discovered, there's an increased risk of blisters. That being said, I've done 20 k barefoot in the rain without issue.
 
Jake:Wir haben kein Deutsch

Jake:

Wir haben kein Deutsch gelernt, nur ein Wenig Swaebisch. Und das war 15 Jahre nach; Zeit und kein Sprechen haben unser Zoll gemacht an unser Vokabulaire. Ich kann mein Punkt machen, und genug verstehen fuer taeglich leben und sprechen (a good bit more than normal conversational, but definitely not fluent, and 15 years of rust-producing non-speaking produce exactly the result you would probably estimate).

We took the kids to Europe for 2 weeks this past summer, mostly German and Austria, but a touch of France, Switzerland and Italy as well. They picked up a good bit of traveling German surprisingly quickly, and they all fell in love with Deutschland, as we did.

I've been cautious with BFR when it's too wet, or even immediately after taking shoes off. I give my feet a few minutes to acclimate and dry off after having them in socks and shoes for a while before going out to run or walk on concrete/asphalt barefoot. If I had to get a wet run in at this partial stage of sole skin development, it would almost certainly be in VFFs.





I left some blank space just above these lines for all of the "No way, man!" comments that you'll surely get after such rank blasphemy against the church of the barefoot on my part. Whatever works for you is best; that's at the core of what I'm learning from these guys, from the asbolute purists to the minimalist advocates and VFF-lovers alike. You'll get lots of great advice from every quarter here.

Enjoy!
 
I love my rain runs.  I have

I love my rain runs. I have not blistered from running in the rain or on wet asphalt, but I understand some people do. I also understand the more you do it, the easier it becomes, and the less you will blister or experience hot spots.

I remember my first rain run. It was POURING down big time, during the summer, and I was "caught" out in it (thank God) on the cart paths were the majority of people who run like to go. On my run, as I'm going about my usual route, I see all these runners scurring to get to their cars and then found some more in a couple of the tunnels. They didn't want to get their shoes wet. And here I am dancing, prancing, and acting the fool passing them by. What I sight I must have been. Ha, oh so fun! I think that was by far my best run ever, in terms of enjoyment. In terms of self-awareness, my best run by far was my first barefoot run, where I was forced to take my shoes off, since they had damaged my feet so severely with Morton's Neuroma that I could not finish shod (thank God).
 
Phil: Wow, ich bin

Phil: Wow, ich bin begeistert. Nach drei Jahre kannst Du so gut Deutsch?! Und schon 15 Jahre her! Ich hatte ein Vorteil. Ich habe zwei Semester an der Uni Paderborn studiert. Schwer damals, aber ich musste schnell lernen. Ich habe auch als Kellner gejobbt. Hat auch viel geholfen.

Great that you brought your kids back to Europe recently. My kids feel so comfortable now being around different cultures and languages. Kids are like sponges. Before moving here 4 years ago, my daughter didn't speak German at all (she was 5 at the time), but she understood a lot because my wife tried to speak it at home as much as possible. Within two months of being over here, my daughter stopped speaking English to me and the family and completely switched to German. And her accent was perfect. I'm convinced we should force feed all kids multiple languages in the first 10 years of their lives.

As for the wet BFR, I'm going to test a few things this fall and winter. It did scare me when just one short kilometer or two on wet, rough asphalt took off many layers of the skin I had been building up. I think a trail or brick sidewalk would be fine, but an older asphalt road that isn't as smooth anymore scares me when my feet are wet.
 
TJ: Liked your rain story's. 

TJ: Liked your rain story's. And someone should start a forum where everyone could write about their first barefoot run. Gotta be some good stories there.

You mentioned blisters. I didn't actually blister the one time I ran on a wet street. It was asphalt, but I think it has degraded over the years, so it's not smooth anymore. I've run on it barefoot several times, because when its dry it feels like a challenge for my skin, but not so difficult that I tense up. So anyway, when I ran on it when it was wet, I stopped and looked at my feet and the skin I had been building up for a couple months looked like hamburger. It didn't go so deep that it bled, it just chewed up the surface skin. You know what I mean?

I was able to run barefoot two days later, so no real damage done, but I think I lost some layers of protective skin. I'll try it again tomorrow (it's forecast to rain all weekend) and report back.
 
That's what we call hot

That's what we call hot spots. I think the best way to tackle rain runs is to actualy run in the rain. You will condition your feet by the experience, and that is a good thing. Yes, let us know how it goes.
 
So does that mean

So does that mean experienced barefooters can run in wet conditions and the skin on their feet doesn't get soft and slowly wear away? That would be cool and something to look forward to.

By the way, why do they call them "hot spots". The bottoms of my feet weren't really hot or painful, just chewed up.
 
Yes, more experienced

Yes, more experienced barefooters can get away with running on most everything, but probably not every single thing, such as goatheads, Death Valley in the middle of summer, etc.

Hot spots don't necessarily refer to an area being hot to the touch or a feeling of heat coming from the source, although they can, but rather, "hot spot" refers to an area that has been worn away, an area where the skin has thinned out, an area that is just short of forming a blister, etc.

It's a right of passage around here.
 
That 20k I mentioned was in

That 20k I mentioned was in pouring rain and yet my soles weren't affected at all. I have quite a bit of calloused skin on the sides of my feet though in places where it doesn't wear away by running, and those places were all pruned up. The soles were a little bit swollen from being soaked for a couple of hours, but fully functional.
 
 I am not yet far along

I am not yet far along enough to comment really on running in the rain / wet roads. I am hoping that it will get better as my technique evens out.

My only real blisters problem occurred on a long run when the pavement was wet from early morning dew. Everything seemed great for a while. Toward the end, I started getting tired, and I could feel my form slipping. After that, I noticed some funny sensations (not painful, yet) coming from a few spots. Only once in the shower I noticed the blisters. They turned painful soon after that. Nevertheless, they were gone after two days.



I am glad to hear that others find running in the wet possible, once adapted. I'll just have to tough it through. It was quite cold the other night when I ran, and I was delighted to find my feet all warmed up after just 1 km.



As to the Paleo thing, my wife may have gotten the idea from the Paleo-Diet. We are quite fascinated by an apparent trend, both in the US and in Europe toward a return to things natural, simpler and often traditional. It's happening all over, and it cuts across usual political lines. There is, for example, a lot going on in food/nutrition to highlight non-processed, traditional diets (see Michael Pollan, Jamie Oliver or Mark Bittman), or, generally in consumption of material goods (spurred by the financial crisis and by the long-needed correction in our spending and saving habits), or experiments like "no impact man" (a guy in NYC who tried living with no carbon footprint for a year). Barefoot running seems to be part of this trend (which is not to say that it is trendy).

I'll look forward to the German chapter. The barefoot-wave has not yet really come ashore here. I recently saw a translation of "Born to run" in the bookstore, and I noticed in the current German edition of Runner's World there is a short piece on "natural running". Although barefoot running was mentioned (with the usual picture of Zola Budd) as was Pose, it also reviewed the various shoes you could buy (Nike Frees, Newtons etc.) for "natural running". Frustrating. But, hey, it's a bit hard to generate advertising revenue from a non-existent product.

Cheers

Jamie
 
In my experience, damp is

In my experience, damp is worse than wet. I had my only issue with potential blisters this year after I had been at the beach with my family for a couple of hours and I thought I'd run home. The combination of dry chip seal and soaked feet made me really sensitive and I felt like I'd get a blister or five if I didn't stop so I walked the rest. I ran to the beach earlier that day so I knew it wasn't the road in itself that was causing the issues.
 
Paleo - I ran this morning

Paleo - I ran this morning when it was lightly raining up here in Dusseldorf, and after 7km my feet were okay. The first 2k were hard because my feet were cold, but once they warmed up it wasn't too bad. And no blisters. This BFR thing may work out after all. It helped that I avoided the one road that I know rips up my feet.

I figured you got your name from the Paleo diet. That lifestyle and barefoot running kinda go hand in hand. I'm cutting back on the grains myself. Cutting out beer will be the big challenge.

By the way, I caved in and started a blog about running barefoot in Europe. I travel quite a bit, so I'll try to post about adventures in different countries. I think you said you were married to an American rather than a German, but living here, you might get a kick out of a post I just did on Barefoot Running vs. Marrying Cross-Culture. The blog is runbarefooteurope dot blogspot dot com.
 
Blind boy - Just did 7 km

Blind boy - Just did 7 km this morning in light rain. The first couple km were tough due to the cold/rain mix. Once I warmed up it wasn't so bad, and my feet are okay.

I'm jealous that you live close enough to run home from the beach. Nothing better than running on the beach. By the way, I started a blog at a suggestion from Jason Robillard. I'm writing about running barefoot in various places in Europe (I travel for work), and I'm going to be posting articles on running on the beach in Italy, Tel Aviv and one on Barcelona in the next few days. Take a look at runbarefooteurope dot blogspot dot com. I've just done a couple of intro posts to get started.

I'd appreciate your feedback. I've never written a blog before.