Heel pain continues

Discussion in 'Ask the Docs' started by Mangesh, Aug 26, 2017.

  1. Mangesh

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    Dearall.. i needed one advice... I was having knees pain problems before, which has come down a little bit after barefoot running.


    However, my heel pain still remains, particularly the right heel.

    I am following the steps elaborared by barefoot ken bob in his book, barefoot running.

    I do a run walk combo( 100 paces each) for 3.5 km in the morning and repeat it in the evening daily.

    I choose gravel whenever i can, in my running stretches

    Can you help me with this pl?
     
  2. Barefoot TJ

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    I think they might need a little more background and detail as to why you are having pain, Mangesh. Thanks.
     
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  3. Backfixer

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    Not everyone will do well with barefoot running if they have core issues. It sounds like you are having a problem in the core and it is likely distorted. Usually, this is a compensation to a gait style that is uneven. Typically, we see that patients who overpronate will tighten in the back of that leg and on the opposite side, the tensor fascia will tighten decreasing shock absorbtion on that side causing pain.

    Have you tried to go to a certified sports chiropractor who does myofascial release. With the right practitioner, you can get this resolved. To understand the mechanisms behind this type of pain, read my book Cheating Mother Nature, what you need to know to beat chronic pain. It will help you understand what is happening. It is not a heel problem but a gait issue.

    Hope that helps
     
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  4. Barefoot TJ

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    Thank you, Doc! We haven't had much activity in this forum for a long while. Good to see you are still around too.

    When you say, "Not everyone will do well with barefoot running if they have core issues," is the issue really with running "barefoot" or running period with any style of running, heavily shod, minimalist, bare, etc.? I mean God didn't create us with high-heeled, thick, heavy soled feet, so adding heavy shoes surely would throw off our natural biomechanics, right?
     
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  5. Backfixer

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    Basically, it has to do with impact. We are all built differently and as a result, adapt to our unique body mechanics. Some of us are very asymmetrical and more prone to injury since asymmetry will distort the core, tighten the legs and reduce stride and cause the myofascia in the core to become very tight. Most of us are unaware of this, or attribute our lack of flexibility to age or other reasons. The best way to see this is to put someone on a treadmil at their normal running speed and shoot a 30 second clip. We can slow it down but I can tell you already this runner over and under strides barefoot or shod, and likely hunches their shoulder as a compensation and probably has their hands crossing the body as they stride. Just an educated guess but if they are kind enough to upload a video, I would be happy to give them my long distance opinion
     
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  6. Barefoot TJ

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    Thanks for that, Doc. We appreciate what you do and your help with our members.

    I agree, the OP should post a video of their running (barefoot and shod).


    If there are core issues, etc., running of any type would be problematic, not just barefoot running. (Did cavemen have core issues?)

    If you're talking about impact being the difference, most people who run barefoot impact the ground with a lot less force than someone wearing big, cushioned running shoes that deafen their gait and their feedback from that gait. People who run barefoot ten to run gingerly; people who run shod tend to pound the ground. Some studies have shown that impact forces increase when running shod versus barefoot. Proprioception and sensitivity are lost the moment we cover our feet with anything, right down to a pair of socks. Many here can attest to this, including me. (The reason there are more nerve endings in our feet than anywhere else in the body...well...except one area...is so we can feel the earth, so we can tell where we are at any given time and moment in space.) This loss of feeling contributes to our haphazardly pounding the earth trying to find solid ground, solid footing.

    Of course, some would argue that it's not about what is on one's feet or not on one's feet, but rather, the running style being used. We don't learn to run naturally when something covers our feet. We do learn to run naturally when nothing covers our feet. (How could shoes ever be "natural?") "How one runs probably is more important than what is on one’s feet, but what is on one’s feet may affect how one runs." ~Dr. Daniel Lieberman

    This review talks about the evolution of running from unshod to shod, the differences, the outcomes...:
    Daniel E. Lieberman. 2012. “What We Can Learn About Running from Barefoot Running: An Evolutionary Medical Perspective.” Exercise Sport Science Review, 40, 2, Pp. 63-72; https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/dlieberman/files/2012c.pdf


    Barefoot Ken Bob slow-motion on treadmill - YouTube
    View attachment 8405 ▶ 0:40

    Aug 17, 2010 - Uploaded by Ken Bob Saxton
    Harvard University, Dr Daniel Lieberman's Skeletal Biology lab Note the subtle fore-foot landing. I'm not ...
     
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  7. Backfixer

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    Of course, everything is theoretical until we see the video. I have seen shoulder problems destroy ones gait. Unfortunately, our health system tends to look at us as if we are parts that go bad and most of us have pains that appear to be the problem or are they?

    Pain needs to have a mechanism and heel or foot pain is a biggie. Barefoot or no, it is about impact. The example I always give is by hitting my patient lightly on their shoulder and then asking them how they would feel if I did this for hours. This describes most heel, foot and lower extremity running issues and even the walking ones.

    We are not widgets and regarding cavemen, how long did they live and did they have pain? Not sure that we are the only generation in the industrialized age that has pain. I always look at movement and impact and the way we learn movement with our own gait, not someone elses.

    Putting the foot in a box definitely deconditions the foot and can cause issues, but runners with issues shod often have other issues barefoot. Is it conditioning or is the body, our accommodation of the fascia and our unique skeletal design the issue and does it run in families. It is a real eye opener when we finally become less dogmatic and look at the person on a video and get their complete history
     
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  8. Barefoot TJ

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    Oh, I agree. There are a lot of dynamics that can contribute to one's pain and improper running form and vice versus o_O. It's a unique, individual thing. I just believe that most of our problems with our feet, our knees, our backs, etc., would not exist if we had never conformed/confined our feet to shoes in the first place. We've introduced shoes (or the wrong types of shoes), and we've introduced problems that can affect every aspect of our bodies.

    My "caveman" comment was to say--running was intrical to survival (hunting for prey, hiding from predators). If we tried that today, we surely would be eliminated. :nailbiting:
     
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  9. Backfixer

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    And just to riff on cavemen, getting a date was as simple as clubbing your woman :). Sorry about that, but while we were getting neanderthal.
     
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  10. trevize1138

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    My usual simplified take:

    Studying up Ken Bob's tips and watching videos on running stride really took a while to sink in for me. I was spending so much effort studying all the various aspects of proper form but never really catching on. I would try to strive for shorter strides, strive for higher cadence, strive for landing more forefoot or midfoot, strive to run with quiet steps ... None of my direct attempts to do any of those things or a combination of them worked and I struggled.

    I didn't start doing all of those things until I focused on just one thing: "run like you're barefoot on hot coals."

    When I finally internalized that visualization it all clicked and my feet stopped hurting while barefoot. I've started modifying my advice to others by suggesting your focus should be 100% on lifting your feet off the ground the instant they touch the ground. The hot coals visualization got me to do that and for others thinking of running like you're sneaking up on someone or prancing or marching works. Focusing on the lift and nothing else at least gets you to use your upper legs for running not your lower and could help with things like heel pain because you'll be lighter on your feet as a byproduct.

    The reason it works to focus on something like that which isn't very logical (you really can't lift your feet off the ground the instant they touch the ground unless you're running in place) is that mind-body connection is weird. You have to trick yourself into doing the right thing and sometimes you can't "logic" your way to solid form.
     
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