frustrated newbie trying to transition

shawshank

Barefooters
Jun 8, 2011
39
1
0
Hey all! I am a regular runner & have been putting in about 35-40 miles per week for the past five years or so. I read BORN TO RUN, bought some VIBRAMS, & thought I would make a move toward more minimal shoes & mix in some barefoot running.

Here is what I have done so far.

1. Read BORN TO RUN (check)

2. Bought VIBRAMS & wore them all winter to try to strengthen my calves & lower legs. (check. I can walk around in them w/ no pain now.)

3. Read several books on barefoot running (e.g. FOR DUMMIES) & got the gist of it --> curl toes, bend knees way too much, relax calf & foot, increase cadence.

4. Started running on trails concentrating on footstrike & cadence. IT FELT GREAT. Started thinking that the transition may not be so bad because I was improving my running biomechanics.

4. Changed my regular running shoes to a more minimal shoe as a step toward mixing in VIBRAMS and barefoot and.....BANG --> intense pain in right calf. I ran through it in the middle of a one hour run. Took several days off. Ran again & felt pain after running 25 mins so waited 4-5 days. took a week off & just went on a run a few days ago. 9 mins & 45 secs --> pain.

So I'm taking a week off at least. I am very interested in maximizing my mileage barefoot, but I don't know if I have "the right stuff." Here is my plan. (I am also open to any other suggestions from more experienced barefoot runners who have made the transition.)

1. cross-train. I swim & bike. I am trying to use the biking to partially offset my time running & concentrating on the "upswing" when pedalling to keep that feeling of "lifting your feet" when barefoot running. I am also using the elliptical & focusing on my running form while on there (i.e., "lifting" w/ hamstring vs "pushing" w/ quads). I have also added yoga to my list of things to do since I read somewhere that it strengthens your feet & should help me to develop muscle groups & core strength to build up my barefoot running.

I have an on-line running log & it is depressing to see how this injury bug has taken me down. :(



2. be patient. (this is the hardest for me). I am going to try to wait two weeks before trying running again. I read Barefoot Ken/Bob's book & he suggests a MWF plan that has you run barefoot 5 mins, 5 mins, 10 mins week 1 (& moves up from there over a period of time). Anyone else have any alternate training plans? I want to get on track but I am very frustrated right now.

Barefoot running was supposed to protect me from injury and I need to work through this calf pain to get back in the swing of things. I also have some pain behind my right knee & when I do yoga I can feel my right hamstring is tighter than my left. Any other suggestions for cross-training? I am going to try jump rope (to strengthen my feet/calves), lunges, & running in place for short periods to get the feel.



This may be way too much info for a newbie, but I could use any and all help. Thanks in advance! shawshank.
 
First tip:  Ditch the shoes

First tip: Ditch the shoes entirely and just go naked foot as much as you can. It'll save you time and aggravation during the learning phase. There is no way to make the transition easier or faster other than to just go barefoot as much as possible and be mindful of your new limits with the goal of exceeding them. You'll really feel frustrated when you cause an injury that takes several weeks to heal and impacts your other activities.



Second: I'm sure it's not has bad as it seems in your post, but it seems to me you are asking a lot of your body. More power to you if you can do all that and now feel a thing. Let it heal. Numbers on a screen are not as important as proper mechanics and comfortable operation. Do your other activities in a manner that is comfortable and relaxing to you; don't try so hard to alter the mechanics of your other activities to (if you really don't want to) assist with your BFR transition. The transition will happen in it's own course. Be sure to keep those calves limber but don't over stretch. The down dog position in yoga is good for that, espiecally when you do alternating heel presses. Squatting and holding the position with heels to the ground helps as well.



Third: It's going to be umcomfortable at times and will require extreme amounts of patience on your part as you're essentially re-learning how to run and your feet have to adapt to the new demands; which can take a solid year of weekly runs. Even when you feel you finally got it, things may still feel strange at times. Example:

I'm well on my way and am able to do a comfortable 10K at a decent pace on most surfaces. However, my feet mysteriously ache from the run of yesterday morning. The same route I've run at least 3-4 times before, barefoot. Hurt like hell to do the trail part and my feet are still sore to the point I have to wear my keens for the extra padding at the forefeet. I think it was because my knees weren't bent enough and I was pounding. Stuff like is gonna happen and there is a zone you're mind gets into when you run and that zone has automated behavior; you just sort of space our whilst still doing what you need for a smooth run. This happens after years of running or doing any activity. The key is to enter that zone and find that the old shod behavior that is automated has been replaced with BFR mechanics. Me thinks that is what happened to me tuesday and I may have mixed BFR mechanics with shod and now I hurt. Having to be vigilent against bad habits creeping into the BFR form can be tiresome for some months but eventually isn't an issue.



Oh well, I have a bike, it's good exercise as well and so I'll do that until my feet are repaired. I used to get frustrated but that is not productive nor conducive to a smooth learning experience. And it makes me grumpy.
 
tx for the detailed reply,

tx for the detailed reply, megaBF!

I don't have much experience w/ these types of calf injuries. some questions:



1. How long do you need to stay off them before you start running again?

2. I don't feel pain or discomfort when biking or using the elliptical so I figure these are "safe" cross-training activities. Agree or disagree?

3. I have built up an extensive cross-training program that is designed to maintain my fitness when I get injured. This is the reason why I am so interested in BFR.....to improve my form & reduce my likelihood of injury. I've come back from many injuries over the years and I know that more pain results in more serious injury. I am just trying to figure out a timeline (e.g., 2 weeks no running? 3 weeks?) + strengthen any problem areas I have.



thanks again for the advice! s/s.
 
Use the down dog form and

Use the down dog form and alternate pressing your heels into the ground and holding for several seconds. Combine this with some squats that stretch the calves (you'll know what to do when you feel it) and it will eventually start to loosen. That hellish morning I mentioned also include tightness the shin and calve of the right leg. Like I said, it will take at least a year of training before your body stops bitching at you one way or another.



1. As long as it takes until it doesn't feel so tight or sore.



2. Agree so long as there is no pain. Just don't be so concerned about doing little things to help your BFR, do whatever is comfortable. Worry about BF running when running :)



3. If the pain is isolated to your calf then it is likely due to the new muslce demands. It took my calf several weeks of daily stretching and persistent effort to get it to not be so tight and sore while running. The muscle soreness from the BFR form will eventually go away but if it keeps coming back as you describe, than I would suggest very mild stretching and massage every day multiple times a day. Strenghting won't be an issue, that will just happen on it's own, evidenced by the fact your calves are sore to begin with. You don't need to do anything in addition to that; just focus on the stretching and massage. The goal should be to be able to run a 10k and feel nothing except perhaps some mild sensations on your foot. I dunno when you started or how often you train but that can easily take about 3-5 months, give or take. Once that 10k barrier is comfortably breached, you'll hopefully find it's pretty smooth sailing from there, minus the minor growing pains you may experience, of course.



So do this: Let it rest until you can walk without feeling it. Meanwhile, Start those stretches I mentioned multiple times per day (2-3 sessions at least) and massage it with your fingers or use a rolling pin. I have a rumble roller I use and love that thing. Be sure to do the whole lower leg as the areas that are sore aren't always the culprits. Jog until you start to feel the calf get tight or painful but stop right there, don't run thru it. Massage it, do some VERY mild stretching, (the squats are great during runs if required) and then keep going to see how it feels. When Learning BFR, one must learn to judge progress by feel rather than distance and time; at least until one can BFR without discomfort. Running naked foot will help balance this because the skin will start to sting long before the calf gets sore; at least during the first several weeks. Running in minimalist shoes is asking for soft tissue damage if you're new to the form.
 
Welcome, SS.  I like what

Welcome, SS. I like what Mega has to say here. Good solid advice.

I'm sure you've read in your many readings that the calves are possibly the most difficult part of the body to transition. We all experience some level of calf soreness, some more so than others. It does dissipate, and eventually, will become a thing of the past. BTW, the more you bend your knees, which is always great advice for preventing heelstriking and to help run lightly, the more you will experience the sore calves. So try to find a happy medium with bending the knees just enough but not too much, not in the beginning anyway, and not until you get some more miles under you.

Just know that this doesn't come easy to everyone, but the payoffs are well worth the sacrifices. Keep at it, you'll get it, and as long as you listen to your body and take the breaks as needed (as you are already), you'll be fine.
 
Shawshank - I can totally

Shawshank - I can totally understand your frustration. Something that REALLY helped me with my knot monsters in my calf (I strained my calf pretty good transitioning to BFR) was rolling. Use a foam roller or rolling pin to roll your calves daily. I also used a small nerf ball to target the knot and layed on that for a couple minutes. That's when things started to turn around for me. The soreness and calf issues went away shortly after I started rolling and using the trigger point massage on a regular basis.

TJ - For me, bending my knees while running actually helped alleviate the calf pain while running. I also focused on relaxing my ankles too which would almost immediately give me relief. That was just me, though. :)

Sounds like Shawshank has a good plan. Patience is key. Its hard, but stick with it. It will take some time.
 
The kong dog ball is

The kong dog ball is excellent for muscle knots and you can use it easily in a hot bath. Trigger point release works pretty well with the press and release method, may it be with your thumbs or a ball of some sort. The point we are making here: Massage is gonna go a long way to healing your pains ;-)
 
What a community!  Thanks for

What a community! Thanks for all of the advice and specific tips.

I have a roller and I have been using it on my calves and legs. I will start to do that more regularly. The yoga has been a nice change & is relaxing. I'm hoping that the hip openers & some of the hamstring (& calf) stretches will make a difference.

I was set up for massage once a week, but that fell through for me. I may be able to start it up again...checking to see if my insurance will cover it. (fingers crossed!)

Bottom line is I need a double dose of patience! Thanks to all!! s/s.
 
zapmamak wrote:I also used a

zapmamak said:
I also used a small nerf ball to target the knot and layed on that for a couple minutes. That's when things started to turn around for me. The soreness and calf issues went away shortly after I started rolling and using the trigger point massage on a regular basis.



zap, can you be more specific? how did you lay on the nerf ball & target the knot in the calf? seems like it would be too soft.



thanks! s/s.
 
I'm going through the same

I'm going through the same problems with recurrent DOMS (Delayed Onset of Muscle Soreness) in the calf muscles so I'm interested to see the responses arriving here.

It's become clear to me that the problem is caused because the calf muscle becomes your main shock absorber and if you have been heel striking up until now then the muscle is not well adapted for this job. It's the so called "eccentric contraction" that hurts - that is - as the forefoot lands and the rest of the foot is eased down to the ground the calf muscle controls this by firing actively as the muscle lengthens. Normally a muscle shortens as it fires instead - so this puts a bigger demand on the muscle. I think that patience and persistence are necessary and because DOMS is a sign of a positive adaptive process there is nothing to worry about - it's a good sign and tells you that you are getting there.

The only other thing I've noticed is that there is a great deal of coordination involved to be efficient and the better your technique the less stress on the calves. The body's natural intelligence can't be tapped into when using cushioned soles so we have a big re-programming process to go though. I'm finding that reading as much as possible helps a lot - taking ideas from different views and putting together an understanding that fits my own experience and insight as a professional sports coach in other fields.

Interestingly the Olympic champion skier Jean Claude Killy comes from the town that I work in and when questioned after his success about why he was the best in the world his response was - "The intelligence of the feet!"
 
Shawshank:  I wouldn't worry

Shawshank: I wouldn't worry about an actual massage unless you really enjoy them, of course. I've had them and while they are neat, they can also put you out for a few days due to the extreme stimulation. I find a hot bath/tub with a kong ball is good for sore muscles or just use a foam roller as you are doing combimed with your stretching. You're better just doing it yourself or with a roller. Persistant, daily stretching and practice will eventually find the muscle on the plus side of doing well on it's way to allowing smooth BFR.



Sounds like you're already well on your way and to doing what is needed, just give it time and good luck!
 
shawshank, you've gotten good

shawshank, you've gotten good advice so i won't repeat any of it. However, if I may just add one thing. From watching forum posts over the last year or so, I would say that it is the more experienced runners (like yourself, perhaps? :) ) who sometimes have the greatest struggle changing. They have a lot of expectations of mileage, performance etc, and those expectations just don't mesh well with learning a totally new way of running. Even if they've read good advice they still wanna push it -- probably because their fitness isn't being challenged.

Now I'm not saying that's you exactly, but nonetheless maybe the cross-training like you mentioned is a good idea? Then after some months of getting totally reset with running you can work on mileage and performance again. ?

Let us know how it goes..
 
I'm having kind of the same

I'm having kind of the same problem. My right calf is hurting quite a lot after a barefoot run of about 1-2.5 miles. My left seem to be a lot more fine, when I run it seems like my left leg knows what to do while my right is struggling. It's like my right leg just doesn't seem to want to relax enough and it gets sort of strained.

Then again, sore calfs could also be nothing more that untrained muscles, at least my calfs are not the most muscular ones around here!

Doing yoga has helped a lot in between my runs, and some light massage.



But I also wonder if sore calfs is just a sign of wrong technique? The first thing that came to my mind is that maybe I'm not using my whole foot efficiently? Constant "sprinting" would certainly be quite a strain on the calfs.
 
My first attempts were in

My first attempts were in winter and on ice so although I was attempting to change technique I had normal but somewhat low profile running shoes (minimalist shoes are not always easy to find). My calves were hammered because in the desperate attempt to avoid the heel strike (almost impossible with a raised heel shoe) I stayed exclusively on the balls of my feet - like a sprinter would have to. This was partly also a misunderstanding on my part. It did teach me however that I could run safely in harsh, slippery winter snow and ice without spraining an ankle - which is guaranteed if you heel strike in those conditions.

Eventually through reading I realised that only the "strike" is made on the forefoot - the outside of the forefoot - then the foot pronates onto the main ball and sinks down finally for the heel to touch (optional) - all controlled by the calf muscle overall. The key being to keep the ankle totally relaxed and to work the foot though reflexes. The other thing that spares the calf muscle is avoiding "pushing off" with the foot. Just pick the foot up at the end of the stride and use the fall forward of the body alone for propulsion. These seem to be key elements of both Pose and Chi methods and they make an awful lot of sense.

I can manage good 40min steep trail run now and do about a 4'15" kilometre pace during that at points and only have a mild reaction from the calves now - but without serious attention to technique and understanding I'd still be doing a lot of stupid things and murdering my calves.

I used to go out and run anything from 20 to 45km just for fun so it's really hard to drop right back down to almost nothing - but I now absolutely hate running in cushioned shoes - even walking in them - because I can feel how my body stops functioning properly right up through my spine. I'd rather run one mile correctly than any distance when I'm now aware that it's all wrong, horrible and damaging. (Could I sue Nike for all the spinal surgery and pain I've gone though?)

Meanwhile I maintain fitness through competitive road cycling and interestingly it's the same shift to using core muscles that works there too! (you pick up your foot and leg using your psoas - and you pull up on a pedal the same way). Any shift to using core muscles instead of the small extremities gives a phenomenal power and endurance benefit.

I'm so much looking forward to being able to run for very long distances and fast - either barefoot or minimalist - but I'm happy to be patient getting there. The learning experience is great in itself.
 
I think sore calves are just

I think sore calves are just part of the territory for new barefoot runners, since those muscles haven't been developed in the way they should have. The sore calves will become a thing of the past the more you do this. Some of it could be due to technique or improper form too. Try to relax your calves when you are running, try to keep your knees bent just enough to keep a soft landing and avoid heel striking, and as some would suggest (and I happen to think it feels wonderful and torturous at the same time), get a roller (foam or wood) and roll out your calf muscles. Just keep at it making sure not to overdo it and strain something; note soreness over pain.
 
stomper, I knew this would be

stomper, I knew this would be a problem given my running history. I've had physical therapy on that calf about a year ago. (graston = very painful.) I've spent the past year building up my mileage so my endurance is very good. I've noticed that I am close to Boston qualifying time, but something about my running just hasn't felt right. Then I read BORN TO RUN, started looking into BFR & it clicked for me.

I've spent the past month on trails w/ lower profile shoes & worked on my form (lift your feet before they hit the ground, bend your knees) & dominated hills over the past few months.

And I cross-train "just in case" something goes wrong (i.e., swimming 2.25K three times a week).

But running is the engine that drives everything that I do. I run 5x a week regularly & I dropped my mileage significantly in anticipation of the transtition.

So this is both a physical challenge (calf hurts!) and a mental challenge (elliptical!) dropping back to zero. I've done the cross-training before and worked my way back. (more times than I care to mention.) I'm not trying to qualify for Boston and I am in this for the long haul. I just need to get over this hump. And everyone has been great about chiming in w/ advice/encouragment.



The bottom line (from everyone's responses) is that this is do-able. But I was wondering if other members have gotten rid of their shoes & go BF full time. Or if they just go BF to run & wear shoes (or other minimal footwear) the rest of the time.

I wore my VIBRAMS for 45 mins on the elliptical today for the first time because of the policy at my gym. I have fashioned a set of huaraches using a kit I bought on the internet, but I can't get the laces to feel comfortable. Anybody have any links or tips to share to lace huaraches?



Plus I have 3 boys that I am trying to transition into BFR. We worked on making the huaraches & I want them to wear them this summer if it's not possible to go BF. So the lacing issue is important for the shawshank clan!

Thanks for everyone's encouraging words & advice! s/s.
 
Lara, I got my calf strain

Lara, I got my calf strain transitioning into more minimal running shoes. I was running down a hill & focusing on lifting my feet & increasing my cadence & my footstrike when something in my right calf tightened up.

this was in the middle of a medium run (for me). I have become much more concscious of good vs bad foot strikes, but I am not very good at relaxing my foot & calf & absorbing the shock by bending my knees.

I am starting from scratch & working my way back w/ cross-training. I'd be interested to hear what other more experienced BFR have to say. But I am focusing on massage, shortening my runs until I feel pain, & listening even more closely to my body.

plus running w/ a lucky rabbit's foot tucked between my toes!
shades_smile.gif


all I know is the increased cadence, change in footstrike, & need to relax my feet & calves while running has been tough for me.

good luck!
 
TJ, any specific advice for

TJ, any specific advice for starting out running barefoot?

for example, flat surface? concrete and/or asphalt? distance/time for a newbie for the first few weeks? do I run w/ a roller to massage my calves when the inevitable tightness happens for my first few runs?

thanks in advance. s/s.
 
megabarefoot wrote:Let it

megabarefoot said:
Let it rest until you can walk without feeling it. Meanwhile, Start those stretches I mentioned multiple times per day (2-3 sessions at least) and massage it with your fingers or use a rolling pin. I have a rumble roller I use and love that thing. Be sure to do the whole lower leg as the areas that are sore aren't always the culprits. Jog until you start to feel the calf get tight or painful but stop right there, don't run thru it. Massage it, do some VERY mild stretching, (the squats are great during runs if required) and then keep going to see how it feels. When Learning BFR, one must learn to judge progress by feel rather than distance and time; at least until one can BFR without discomfort. Running naked foot will help balance this because the skin will start to sting long before the calf gets sore; at least during the first several weeks. Running in minimalist shoes is asking for soft tissue damage if you're new to the form.



mega, I can walk around without feeling it. I'm wearing VIBRAMS in an effort to strengthen my calves & work on my form walking & will try to go BF over the next few weeks when possible (outside of my time running).

several questions

1. what are the squats that you mention above? more like yoga squats or very deep squats (that you would do w/ weights @ the gym)?

2. do you stop running if your skin starts to sting when starting out? or wait for the stinging to pass & wait for the calf soreness?

thanks again! and again! s/s.