Form Modifications & Scuffed Toes

Discussion in 'Barefoot & Minimalist Running' started by Haselsmasher, Sep 5, 2012.

  1. Haselsmasher

    Haselsmasher Barefooters
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    While I've run true barefoot before, for the last good while (~9-10 months) I've been in minimal shoes. I've been tweaking some things with my form so I've been taking my shoes off to really see how things are going.

    Both 4th toes are really taking a beating. They're going straight to "skin ripped off" - totally bypassing the blister stage. :(

    I presume the reason is some combination of:
    • Pushing off.
    • Gripping the ground with my toes.
    • The skin needing to toughen up.
    Any thoughts from the pros?
    Thx.
    Jim
     
  2. Mike R

    Mike R Barefooters
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    I'm no pro but I had a similar problem when I first started transitioning to barefoot and found that I was pushing off with each stride. What worked for me was the suggestion to concentrate more on lifting my foot off the ground as soon as possible. That was tough to do at first because I was concentrating more on my leading foot. By doing this, it also shortened up my stride.
     
  3. JoshM813

    JoshM813 Barefooters
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    It really is tough to tweak technique whit protection...I have some Moc3s and Luna's but never wear them running because I don't feel comfortable with my technique yet
     
  4. kozz

    kozz Barefooters
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    What about the 5th ones?
     
  5. Neil_D

    Neil_D Chapter Presidents
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    I'm sure Ken Bob covered this very subject in his book so you may want to read that specific chapter. You have to subtly modify your landing so your toes are not forming what he calls a suction cup effect in that as they land they push forwards. I used to get blisters on the toes sometimes but I'm fine these days.
     
  6. EricsLearning

    EricsLearning Barefooters
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    Yeah, just concentrate on having your toes lifted slightly when you land. Truly relaxing your feet works too but it's really tough to think about not doing something for me. I I have a suspicion that a fair amount of TOFP is related to trying too hard to keep your toes up. I have no proof obviously, just thought I would mention it.
     
  7. Haselsmasher

    Haselsmasher Barefooters
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    @kozz: The 5th (and 1st-3rd) are happy as clams. No issues. But those 4th toes, both feet, are unhappy.

    Thanks for the suggestions. I don't have Ken Bob's book - and hadn't heard about the "suction cup" model. Makes sense.

    I'll give it a go.

    Thanks again.

    Jim
     
  8. rickwhitelaw

    rickwhitelaw Barefooters
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    I'm far from a pro Jim, but most of my problems went away when I dropped my minshoes and my pace.
     
  9. Bare Lee

    Bare Lee Chapter Presidents
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    My second right toe felt a little abraded the whole first year I ran barefoot, then it went away on its own. I think it hangs slightly lower than the other toes.
     
  10. Zetti

    Zetti Barefooters
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    Yep, I would say slow the pace down a bit and see what happens.
    Its easier to learn good form and then get fast than to get fast then try to learn good form...

    Of course you should probably not listen to my advice as 70% of my posts are rubbish :barefoot:
     
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  11. Bare Lee

    Bare Lee Chapter Presidents
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    I've found it to be just the opposite, and I think Jason has said so too--the faster I go, the better my form (I even find myself heel-striking from time to time at sub 11 or 12 mm paces). I feel best around 8-9 mm pace. But this advice comes with a similar caveat; at least 70% of my posts are rubbish.
     
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  12. Zetti

    Zetti Barefooters
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    Everyone is entitled to their wrong opinions Lee :D......and Jason.......crap :(
    I guess my credibility just went down another %
     
  13. Bare Lee

    Bare Lee Chapter Presidents
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    I've basically decided there's two sides to every issue involved in barefoot running, be it rules (180 cadence, 10%, knee-bending, not pushing off) versus just run, barefoot versus minimal, Maff versus varied training, form technique versus listen to your body, Chi versus Pose, nose-breathing versus mouth-breathing, road versus trail, racing versus recreation, paleo versus vegan, blah versus blah, and so on versus so forth. So your chances of being right versus wrong are as good as mine being wrong versus right. In the end the fastest guy/gal wins, and the happy ones keep running.
     
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  14. Jaybird

    Jaybird Barefooters
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    No substitute for BARE, not faux-bare (gee, maybe I should write a
    children's book about the happy bare foot children and the EVIL
    fauxbear that comes along to take their joy away :D)...

    Had this very problem back in the late spring I believe, and its
    just disappeared with time.
     
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  15. Haselsmasher

    Haselsmasher Barefooters
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    A couple of points of clarification:
    * I don't have the goal right now of increasing my pace. I'm not trying to increase my pace. Maybe what folks are saying is that if my toes are getting raw I'm running too fast.
    * I've considered myself a Pose runner and when I ran barefoot "running Pose" I had no issues whatsoever. While I've generally been happy with it (and running minimally with that method) I've become very VERY intrigued by Dr. Cucuzzella's work/form and so I've been experimenting with those concepts. THAT is why I took my shoes off again. Since I was experimenting with some new (to me) form concepts I knew it would be best if I took off my shoes. It always has amazed me, no matter how minimal the shoe, even when you think the form is dialed in, what skin-to-ground will tell you.

    Thanks again for the input/comments.

    Jim
     
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  16. barefootn

    barefootn Barefooters
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    Be aware of how your toes feel when they touch the ground and when you push off. You should not feel friction, just place them down and pick them up. I had the same problem at first. It will go away with time. Some people wrap a bandaid around the toe, it might stay on for a few miles. Pick a friendly surface (not chip seal). You should be able to adjust to whatever pace you want to run. Your three concerns are correct. I'm not a pro either, just enjoying running.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. barefootandagile

    barefootandagile Barefooters

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    Suprised no one has gotten the right answer yet. The problem is that you ran barefoot. Put the min shoes back on and you should be fine :)

     
  18. Bare Lee

    Bare Lee Chapter Presidents
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    +1
     
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  19. barefootandagile

    barefootandagile Barefooters

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    Jim,

    It is also telling you to stick wit pose form ;-)
     
  20. Bare Lee

    Bare Lee Chapter Presidents
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    Please write it so I can read it to my kids every night. Stupid day care is saying my toddler needs more shoe when he's outside. I don't know what the market would be like, but I would buy many copies of a children's book that could illustrate all the ways that kids need to be barefoot for strong, healthy feet and a natural gait, and distribute them to anyone with kids or who works with kids.
    Yup, me too. Your sole will teach you the difference between right and wrong by instinct, just as our souls do, when we bother to listen to them.
     

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