Fellowship of the Morton's Toe

Discussion in 'Health, Nutrition, Injuries & Medical Conditions' started by Nyal, Sep 30, 2010.

  1. Nyal

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     33 this year. Is there

    33 this year. Is there something 'youthful' about the Lord Danko?
     
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  2. Peanut

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    Wow - my toes have a name.

    Wow - my toes have a name. AWWWW! I think I'll call them Morty and Mortify. LOL

    Actually, Morty is a pain in the foot sometimes at his base so now I know why !
     
  3. Barefoot TJ

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    Well, you are 11 years

    Well, you are 11 years younger than me, and that's pretty youthful in my book.

    Peanut, you are a kick!
     
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  4. vibramchic

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    Hi All,  I've been running

    Hi All,

    I've been running in minimalist shoes since August this year and have worked up to running 50% barefoot and 50% in VFFs. For a week or so now I've been noticing a pain on the top of my foot, just below my Morton's toe. The pain is also underneath, on the ball of the foot under the Morton's toe, but it's much worse on top of the foot.

    At first it was like a twinge during a barefoot run, mostly when I would increase my speed, and the pain would go away within an hour of finishing a run. Now the pain flares up wearing VFFs too and is painful all the time. There's no specific spot that hurts on any bone, but it does hurt to walk and run.

    I've been altering my stride to try and not land on the part that hurts, but now that's not working any more. I also have a bunion on the same foot, I wonder if that is causing the pain and these past few days I'm getting some numbness in both my Morton's toe and my big toe. I've decreased my mileage and am taking extra days off (very frustrating!) to try and allow whatever is going on to time to heal.

    I'm just wondering if anyone else has experienced symptoms like this, and if so, if you ever found out what the problem was? Thanks everyone!
     
  5. Barefoot TJ

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    I have not experienced this

    I have not experienced this specifically. The problem is in both feet, equally? I'm thinking you need to take a couple of weeks off at least, preferrably more, to fully heal. Hopefully, someone who has experienced this will chime in soon.
     
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  6. Nyal

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    Hello VC,Yes, I am familiar

    Hello VC,

    Yes, I am familiar with this condition. I am unsure about what exactly causes it but it is serious. Do NOT, repeat, do NOT push through this pain or you will out injured for 6 weeks. The key is to cut miles back until there are no symptoms or discomfort. Then over several months build up at snails pace. I know it is hard but if you ignore it you will get some kind of fracture. I am still dealing with mine.

    Also the BF orthotic seems to help. More on that soon.

    Typing very slowly with a dvorak keyboard,

    Nyal
     
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  7. Nyal

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    One more thing, you can rest

    One more thing, you can rest the injuries with a stiff sole. I have a stiffer sandal I use for running when it is bad. Note I said stiff not padded or supportive!
     
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  8. Angie Bee

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     I just found this sticky!  I

    I just found this sticky! I had overlooked it in my denial of any issues.

    So I am not sure if Mortons toe is the problem. My 2nd does not look longer but I have wicked calouses between my 1st and 2nd toes on the ball of the foot pad.

    I get this zinging pain that starts to ache across the top of all my toes after a few miles barefoot.

    The zing pain originates from my 2nd toe and at the base between the 1st and 2nd I can press there and it hits a nerve that runs the length of my toe. It feels like the end of my 2nd toe bone is sharp and pointed and when I take a step the bone feels too long for the skin and wants to burst through. It hurts.

    I have been running on concrete and asphalt for over a year and a half and was regularly running 18-20 miles. Just recently this came out of nowhere.

    Any ideas? I thought that maybe softening the calous and then maybe sanding it down with one of those sweedish foot things would help.

    I can run in minimal shoes and it gets a bit uncomfortable but I can run over 10 miles easily. I can only run about 3 miles if that barefoot.

    Any ideas? I do not want to go to the doctor unless I absolutely have to.
     
  9. Barefoot Burt

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    Angie,It sounds like some

    Angie,

    It sounds like some gnarly tendonitis. Somehting is prolly a little off in your form. I would ice the heck out of them and stay out of shoes and get to the bottom of the tecnique issue. Have you ever run with any experienced barefooters? It was helpful for me to run with Ken Bob and the Romero bros.
     
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  10. Angie Bee

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     BurtIts only one toe that

    Burt

    Its only one toe that hurts. Its the head of the first metatarsal on my right foot on the underside or under my pad between my big and second toes.

    It is excruciating if I run barefoot for more than a mile or so which sucks since I run all my miles barefoot until now. The shoes seem to block the tweaking of the nerves around that spot yet allow me to still run with descent form.

    I have ran with one other experienced barefoot runner and we have a different style of running it seems. We are the only two in this area that I know of.
     
  11. Barefoot Burt

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    Angie,You probably need to

    Angie,

    You probably need to pick the feet up quicker. DO you hear any slapping or pouding when you run?

    Your injury sounds like this

    Metatarsalgia (literally metatarsal pain, colloquially known as stone bruise) is a general term used to refer to any painful foot condition affecting the metatarsal region of the foot. This is a common problem that can affect the joints and bones of the metatarsals. Metatarsalgia is most often localized to the first metatarsal head (the ball of the foot just behind the big toe). There are two small sesamoid bones under the first metatarsal head. The next most frequent site of metatarsal head pain is under the second metatarsal. This can be due to either too short a first metatarsal bone or to "hypermobility of the first ray" (metatarsal bone + medial cuneiform bone behind it), both of which result in excess pressure being transmitted into the second metatarsal head.
     
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  12. Angie Bee

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     I think I typed the last

    I think I typed the last response wrong in that I put first and I meant second Metatarsus head. I am working on tweaking my form to try and remedy the problem. I am thinking just resting the area although I still can run in my minimal shoes and it is not too bad and doesn't hurt any worse after the run.

    Would a bruising be a nerve issue. Has anyone had the pain shoot up the toe?
     
  13. nature runner

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        Yes, I have had the pain

    Yes, I have had the pain shoot up the toe, I was in denial at first and ran on pavement anyway. I felt a sharp pain in my second toe, and numbness, callus always forms under my second metty no matter how good my form is, I have to stick to trails and gravel to run barefoot. As long as I do that I love it, I can do vibrams on pavement, but I love barefoot better.
     
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  14. BarefootJim31093

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     Thanks for the info.  I do

    Thanks for the info. I do have a question, I'm a older runner with MT. In matter of fact my second toe has started to bend under and is bent most of the time. Should I be doing anything special or should I give up BFR altogether? Please provide any helpful tips. Thanks
     
  15. Phil Hart

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    VibramChic:pay careful

    VibramChic:

    Pay careful attention to Nyal's comments. I had a similar experience, ignored it, and am now 4 weeks into recovering from a stress fracture in my 3rd metatarsal head. Learn from us idiots who weren't smart enough to learn from others first. It will save you much pain, trouble, and setback time off.
     
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  16. deviantrunner

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    I am approaching the 1 year

    I am approaching the 1 year of BFR mark. Although my entire plantar skin surface has thickened during that time, I have had callouses under my 2nd and 5th metatarsal heads. My feet really seem to like irregular surfaces and I am only really bothered by my 2nd metatarsal head when walking on flat surfaces... like @ Walmart... even then it is only sometimes.

    I feel like the situation has been getting better albiet slowly over the past year. At this point I attibute that to years of wearing stiff Dr. Marten shoes which have left my feet weak. My guess is that things will only get better for me. I am still progressing slowly and have twice found that taking a 1-2 week break has me returning to running stronger, faster, and with less discomfort. Of course, the term discomfort should be taken with a grain of salt. If it were truely miserable I wouldn't continue to do it. I really enjoy running barefoot much more than I ever did with shoes on. I am up to 20-25 mpw now. I plan to break 30 eventually, but I am too busy working hard to support my government... err... I mean family. LOL

    Hang in there.
     
  17. Barefoot TJ

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    Jim, how long have you been

    Jim, how long have you been running? How long have you been running barefoot? Do you run minimal at all? If so, how long have you been running minimal? Do you wear shoes? What types of shoes do you wear? How often do you wear shoes/for how long during the day?

    Welcome!
     
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  18. BarefootJim31093

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     TJ,  I've been running for

    TJ, I've been running for about 30 years and started running with minimal, vibram 5 finger classic. Haven't gone totally barefoot yet. I stared using them March 2010 (about 350 miles). I have not been running with them exclusively, When I wear shoes to run I've been running in Mizuno Creation Wave 11. Now that I finished NYC marathon I'm planning to use my minimals more. The shoes I wear at work are just a pair of slip ons shoes and I'm in them for about 8-9 hours a day. I do go in the field some and I wear a pair of boots when I'm out. Thanks for any suggestions or comments.
     
  19. vibramchic

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    Hi everyone,  Thanks very

    Hi everyone,

    Thanks very much for your input on my sore foot. I went to my doctor yesterday. She thinks it could be:

    a. a stress fracture, so she ordered xrays to rule it out

    b. metatarsal tendonitis-I think someone else went into detail on this one in another post

    c. neuroma

    Personally I think it's either b or c, but we'll see what the xray says. My doctor referred me to a GP who specializes in feet issues, so I'm hoping this guy will have some insights. One thing my doctor said as I was leaving, "We have to keep you running!" That's right Dr. Kate :)



    I'm still running, the pain goes away after a half mile and my toes go numb, so it doesn't really hurt, it just feels weird. But I'm managing to run anyway. My doctor thinks its okay, as long as pain is my guide. I'll keep you all posted on what this specialist says. Thanks very much again!
     
  20. Barefoot TJ

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    Chic, definitely keep us

    Chic, definitely keep us posted. I'd especially like to know if they detemine it is a neruoma/s.

    Jim, I asked all those questions because it's very possible that your shoe wearing is what is causing your toe to turn under. If you are going to continue to wear shoes, and in some cases for work, I understand you just have to, try to find some with a very wide toe box. You need to let you toes move the way they were designed to. There are some good posts and suggestions in several of the threads here as to what kind of work shoes people are wearing with success, less pain, less deformity, etc. I know some of our military members have come up with some good alternatives. Try a search. Good luck. For now, I would say go barefoot as much as is possible, everywhere possible.
     
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