Fellowship of the Morton's Toe

Discussion in 'Health, Nutrition, Injuries & Medical Conditions' started by Nyal, Sep 30, 2010.

  1. PaulRJ

    PaulRJ
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    Hi everyone.

    Thanks so so much for your feedback. Its very motivating to think I'll be able to share my experience and find alternatives to try and overcome it and/or share opinions about it.

    TJ: following your advice, I'll switch to MN Talk, but before copy and pasting it there, let me followup here for those who have read up to here and may be interested in the thread.

    Hope the quote works. First time I've done that... :)
    The pain came up wearing vivobarefoot stealth. Since then I have been even more aware of the importance of wearing wide shoes (threw some away, widened others in a shoe makers shop, ...), and the truth is I'm not 100% sure right now that my Stealths aren't too small for me. I do notice pressure on the 4th toe, more than other shoes I have that aren't minimalistic. So maybe the combination of a more metatarsal oriented posture, plus a "less protector shoe" (yes, I know, that may sound streamline, but I will explain what I mean later, see if you agree) and the fact the shoe may be 1 size too small all contributed to the neuroma appearing. Maybe.

    In between the first pain and dropping running I tried to run 100% barefoot. I did 6k with no pain and was out of this world. Next day I woke up and I could hardly stand up :(

    Maybe both. :) But for me the most important conclusion I deduce from this comment is "specialization". To detect the neuroma, i went to the doctor asking for a traumatologist specialized in feet. Then, in parallel, I went to this friend podiatrist who also seemed to be specialized in sports. But I have'n searched for help from a local doctor specifically specialized in MN. That will most probably the next call I'll make to solve this issue if needed.

    Question: anybody round here now a MN specialized doctor near Barcelona, Spain?

    I will try and get a more specific answer on thursday, next visit.

    Linking this comment with your conclusion, you must know that from a conceptual point of view, I can't agree more. Plus, since I discovered the barefoot running world I have been totally convinced by all the arguments that defend it. It had produced a mental U-Turn in me, I was really enjoying myself and even broadcasting to all running friends.

    BUT, MN came along, and as explained I had to define a strategy, and, right or wrong, I have gone for the insoles. Am I totally conviced? No. Why? Because I can't believe it when the podiatrist says the effect of the insoles is going to be the same no matter what shoes I wear. I argued that I would believe him if he tried to convince me to stick to 1 type of shoe (with 1 inclination), but to imagine the insole is going to have the same effect wearing vivo's or wearing Asics doesn't convince me at all.

    BUT, you know the problem? The fact is that since I've been with the insoles, the pain has practically gone away, and these days I've been able to run 6 times without pain. Only up to 2K, but I couldn't do that before. If I listen to my body right now, I have the sensation the "traditional shoes" (which aren't tight on my toes in this case, as others may be) give me a slight extra sensation of protection that makes me feel more confident than the vivo's. At least for running. If above that there is no pain so I can imagine progressing towards running again and increasing the distance, today I think it may work.

    The first day the pain comes back, obviously I'll have to redefine the strategy (and probably throw the insoles away, go barefoot again, and explore one of the other different suggestions around), but until then, and for now (fingers crossed) I'm acheiving what I wanted: to start running again!!

    What do you think?

    I'll keep you updated...
     
  2. calnebarefoot

    calnebarefoot
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    I have heard that the newer Vivobarefoot models are narrower than the older ones.

    I have:
    Evo3
    Neo Trail
    Breatho Trail
    Gobi
    Dharma

    and in all of them I can wear Correct Toes.

    Your story seems very similar to mine, I don't know if you have read it.

    My problems started April 2013,and stopped me running for 6 months from September 2013 until April 2014.

    Today I ran 9 miles in Paleobarefoots, and last weekend 10 miles in Luna Sandals.

    Have you tried Correct Toes?

    I wore them 24/7 for 6 weeks.

    Regards

    Steve
     
  3. Barefoot TJ

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  4. PaulRJ

    PaulRJ
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    - hi steve. Yes, i read your story. Sorry for not pointing that out. Yes, it sounds similar.

    In my case, 5 months, from last august to 2 weeks ago.

    When you started again, did you start with short distances?

    Before visiting the podiatrist (i'm sat down in his waiting room right now) i used silicon toe separators. First without pads on the bottom (just the silicon piece between 3rd and 4th toe). They didn't solve the pain (i have the impression they didn't do anything really). Then i tried the ones with pads on the bottom (sorry to not be more precise) and THESE hurt, so i stopped using them. Shortly after i started visiting the podiatrist, and he told me the toe seperators wouldn't do the job, because the neuroma is not between the toes, its further back in the foot. According to him, seperating the toes doesn't seperate the parts of the metatars that are pressuring and producing the neuroma.

    To be honest, i do have the impression this issue will not be solved only with insoles, and something has to be done with the toes. I'll bring up the correct toes topic in my visit, see what the podiatrist thinks.

    I'll keep you updated. Thanks steve
     
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  5. Sid

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  6. Efrem

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    I have Morton's toe on my left foot, which also has some hallux valgus, but not quite a bunion. I also have less ankle dorsiflexibility on that side, and I think it is mostly due to a shortened hallux (big-toe) flexor. One of the threads Sid linked to above got me thinking about straightening out my left hallux and improving its flexibility. I've been working on that since summer with some toe stretchers and stuff. Also whenever I'm sitting or standing I developed a habit of engaging my abductor hallucis to straighten out the toe. I can do it on command now but it still reverts back to a valgus position often when I'm running and not paying attention. So far I'm happy with the progress. I actually think the valgus has more to do with my problems than the morton's toe.

    haha sorry if that's a bit technical. Anyway since then I have been pleased to discover that increasing big toe flexibility has helped me with leg extension and I can get a longer stride going, really launching off of the extended leg which I could not really do before. Before, my left foot would rotate outward to avoid bending that big toe, but now I'm running "over the top of it" so to speak. It's still not even with my right side but I feel my gait is more symmetric now and it feels better.
     
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  7. wanderingoutlaw

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    I don't know how many times I've overlooked this topic over the past four years but I sure wish I'd read it back in 2010. I never would have guessed that Morton's Toe could be the reason for the callus that won't go away (after five years of barefooting) and the pain and tenderness in that same region. Also, why I haven't yet run further than 18 miles barefoot--although that should change this coming week on a trail run.

    Anyway, I guess I've always been a member of this fellowship of the morton's toe but didn't realize it til this year.
     
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  8. Barefoot TJ

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    Outlaw, now that you know there could be a tie between your pain and callous and the MT, if you do anything to correct it and it works, please let us know. You may be able to help others.
     
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  9. flammee

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    I might have gained something like this condition, five years of running without this kind of troubles... I stubbed my big toe twice and twisted my small toe once this summer. I realized I still could run, barefooted and with little different weight bearing, more on inside edge. So I did run - guess it caused injury to heal wrong... Now it feels like my foot automatically lands on inside edge of the foot.. It takes effort to make it land on outside edge... And at asphalt it feels like theres some extra lump under second metarsal. Feels like I can't do whole footed weight bearing.. That's while running, walking doesn't feel so awkward, sometimes I can feel there's something wrong, but when well warmed up, it feels normal. This condition caused foot pain at different places, so I probably cannot just run it back to normal.

    I wonder if I could heal this by sticking some patch under second metarsal and letting it slowly push it back up (while not running), so that when I remove the patch it would be normal again. Kinda like narrow shoes shape the foot.. But, I'm not really sure if my self diagnosis is right...
     
  10. Sid

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    I think that the practice of landing around the 4th and 5th met is a result of popular videos of a well-established barefoot runner. This is not to say that this is how everyone should land barefoot.

    Personally, I do best when landing around the 2nd or 3rd met, then spring off the big toe.

    Unless, one is having pain or other problems, it's hard to say that one is doing it wrong.
     
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  11. migangelo

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    flammee,

    there is a met head pad you can get to help. i had some but they don't stick to huaraches very well when it rains. go figure.
     

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  12. velcrochicken

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    I have a very subtle Mortons toe. It has caused a list of problems as long as my arm, from TFL, Glute Med, IT band, Calf tightness, arch issues all due to my foot not having that stable support from the first met.

    Currently experimenting with a met pad. Feels good so far.
     
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  13. maxx de williams

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    5654C8E2-AC58-4C4C-A819-DF9F117D0DE5.jpeg 5654C8E2-AC58-4C4C-A819-DF9F117D0DE5.jpeg Hello everybody
    I am a runner from Finland living and running (suffering) for one year in Spain. I am a minimalist runner and never had problems with huaraches until I began running barefoot here in the warm climate. 7k, 12k and 16k in 10 days and on top of that a 53k hike. Now I am suffering since 10 weeks from pain on the ball of my foot under the distal part of the metatarsal II. X-Ray and MRI showed no stressfracture. I did not unerstand what is wrong.
    Thank’s to this thread I now understand myself a little better. I hope I can join the Fellowship. I will upload an x-ray and you don’t have to measure anything. You will see my ”credentials” at a glance.
     
  14. Barefoot TJ

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    Ha, you clearly are a member! You could possibly even be the president.

    I hope through this thread and our members' advice you will be able to find happier, pain-free running and hiking.

    Welcome! :barefoot:
     
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