Fellowship of the Morton's Toe

Discussion in 'Health, Nutrition, Injuries & Medical Conditions' started by Nyal, Sep 30, 2010.

  1. Barefoot TJ

    Barefoot TJ
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    The human race is not defective. Your toes are. It's like a birth defect, but created by a string of genetics that aren't carried by most people.
     
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  2. Barefoot TJ

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    Does it hurt when you walk barefoot?

    I walk barefoot all the time, and my having MT doesn't cause me pain because I do.
     
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  3. Sid

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    I'm no expert, but I'm not sure that those who suffer from Morton's Toe have a defect.

    People die in car accidents all the time, but it's not fair to call the human body frail. Those type of traumatic injuries weren't common until the invention of cars.
     
  4. OneBiteAtATime

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    I'm trying to understand what you're saying, Sid.

    So, the Morton's Toe wasn't a problem until we started running long distances? I don't understand.
     
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  5. Sid

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  6. OneBiteAtATime

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  7. fatboy123

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    Yes TJ, Mild pain under the second meta on the right foot only, I can definitely feel it with every step which causes me to walk on the side of my feet. Unfortunately I'm in a country which is not possible to order stuff online, so I'm trying to figure out how I can maybe make or sew something like this...
    [​IMG]
    So that I can stick those pads underneath the first meta for the house use.

    Bobak.
     
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  8. Barefoot TJ

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    I'm not sure I get your analogy, Sid.

    I spoke to Dr. Burt Schuler, author of Why You Really Hurt, for a couple of hours on the phone a few years back about MT. He actually emailed me wanting to talk to me about our advertising his book on our site. He pretty much explained MT that way. He said we can attribute a change in the genetic chain at some point that caused this flaw in our anatomy. The human race as a whole is not defective, not set out to be that way, but I am convinced he is right about MT.

    Just talking out loud here... What's more interesting is WHY? Why did this change evolve? It's not like it could be beneficial to us? So why take us back a step in our part of the evolution chain? If it is because of footwear, which is a possibility, then why does it show up in sandal-wearing populations where the toe box is open? Does having a sandal-wearing, or closed-shoed wearing population affect genetics down the line? Even just a few thousand years later? How long does MT go back in the genetic chain?
     
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  9. Sid

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    I wonder if people who never wore shoes have problems with Morton's Toe?

    Alcoholism is genetic, but only becomes a problem in societies where alcohol is easily accessible.
     
  10. Barefoot TJ

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    I wonder about that too. Did shoe wearing of any kind, moccasin, huarache, closed-toed, high-heels, etc., cause MT? Does doing so cause a genetic change after numerous years of shoe-wearing? It's a possibility, but more so in shoes that damage our feet, and I don't see moccasins and huaraches doing so.

    I totally get it.
     
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  11. Sid

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  12. PaulRJ

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    Dear fellows (and ladies)

    Its been 4 months since this devil called morton (what a name) knocked on my door and knocked me off the roads.

    During this frustrating and doubtful time, fighting against the fear of not being able to run again, I discovered this blog and from the first day thought "i must share my story here, see what this fellowship thinks about it".

    And the day has come. Why not on boxing day? :)

    I'm 40, I have more or less always practiced sports but only just got seriously into running 3 years ago. I started out running 3k and having a tough time, aimed to be able to participate in a 10k race in a year and finished my first one in 48 mins.

    I then worked on a plan to reduce that time to "40 before I'm 40" and followed it quite strictly over the next months.

    Last Xmas my brothers' present was a session with a personal running trainer that I started to visit in February.

    My personal trainer is, and has been, great. We worked on 4 different aspects to improve my performance: diet, training plan,footware and posture. To summarize: Paleo diet, paleotraining (+ HIIT), barefoot and "upright posture with short and quick strides".

    I was absolutely inspired by all the ideas he shared with me, and in parallel I started learning on my own, specially related to barefoot running.

    But to be precise, we agreed that as my personal goal was to break the 40min barrier before i was 40 (I started with the trainer in February, I was 40 in June, and my best time then was 41.03) I would delay the transition until I achieved it, thus, would carry on running with "traditional" trainers.

    So we worked on the training plan, diet, HIIT etc… and in May, 80 days before my 40th birthday, practically atthe last official race in Barcelona before my birthday I finished 10k in …. 40:00:14!!!! (some cruel mates state I still haven't achieved my goal due to those 14 ms :eek:) )

    The next day I threw my "normal trainers" away and started a new plan with a strict transition towards barefoot running.

    Combining foot and body exercices, new trainers (vivo stealth) and a very cautious training plan ("starting again" at 1k, and increasing progressively), I imagined myself aiming to try and run 10k barefoot again before the end of the year.

    I carried on running and the sensations were great. I increased distance from 1k up to about 4k, with constant advice from my trainer in order to avoid injury.

    Suddenly, literally 4 days before my summer holidays, after running 2k , a sharp pain came up in my left foot forcing me to stop and walk back home. Next day, I went out again, and after exactly the same distance, the same pain appeared. Between the third and fourth toe… Mr Morton had arrived, although I still didn't know it.

    I had little time before a 2 week family holiday in Italy, where I planned to carry on with my training as I had done the previous 3 summers wherever I travelled to. So I didn't have any time to seek medical advice before leaving, so I packed my running gear and didn't change my intentions.

    But it hurt, so after a few days trying, and being forced to even sit down on the beach without even being able to walk, I decided to stop running until I found out what the problem was.

    When I arrived to Barcelona I planned 2 medical visits: my trainer (who is also a fisiotherapist) and a traumatologist.

    The latter diagnosed the neuroma inmediately, it was confirmed through eco (1,5cmx0,7cm), and xrays showed that my first metatars is slightly shorter than the second. He concluded that his "solution" would be to open up and cut it out. Although he was straightforward with the fact that there would be a tough recovery phase, and he couldn't guarantee 100% it would solve my problem. So he suggested me to look for other solutions and come back to him as a last option.

    With the fisio we combined foot massages with currents, foot exercises and a progressive plan to overcome the pain and start running again progressively. Along with totally eliminating any tight shoes i could have, which I did.

    At that point I had 2 alternative plans and really wasn't totally convinced any of them would allow me to get running again.

    So I sought a third opinion and went to visit a friend of mine that I knew was a podiatrist, but didn't realize he worked at a clinic called "Sportsmen recovery center". At least the name was encouraging.

    He quickly confirmed the neuroma, afirmed there was a biomechanical reason behind it and concluded that his idea would be to use insoles to correct posture and reduce pressure on the metatars. He estimated in 80% the probability of being able to run again, but definitely not barefoot. On the contrary, according to his advice, I was to switch back to "traditional running shoes" avoiding any running style based on metatars footsteps.

    So now I had 3 different opinions and plans: Barefoot and patience, surgery and insoles.

    After a lot of thinking, reading , talking with people and listening to my body, although I had really been convinced and atracted by the principles of barefoot running, I went to get the insoles done. That was 3 weeks ago.

    Until then I haven't ran. I actually haven't ran for about 5 weeks now. I am waiting to be able to visit the podiatrist to try and agree with him a plan to start again, but I'm afraid I won't be able to do that until 2 weeks from now.

    And at the end of the day, I'm still not totally convinced about my decision. And thats the reason why I'm sharing my experience here to see what you think…

    Do you think the transition could have caused the Neuroma or it comes from before that?
    Do you think the best solution in my case is using insoles and stick to traditional footware, even though that may injure my knees?
    Or should I carry on with the transition patiently and reinforce my feets muscles and tendons with exercises?

    Thanks very much for any thoughts you may share.

    Cheers.
     
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  13. Sid

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  14. Barefoot TJ

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    I'll read this shortly and get back to you.
     
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  15. Barefoot TJ

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  16. calnebarefoot

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  17. Sid

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    I'm no expert here, but might there be a fourth option, as calnebarefoot has alluded, possibly rehab?

    The unfortunate problem is the medical community's complete lack of research into physiotherapy for Morton's neuroma.

    Although, some people have improved their situation using Correct Toes, even Dr. Ray doesn't specifically suggest use of toe spreaders on his neuroma page. (Doing so would require medical research showing that such strategies work. See above.)
    https://nwfootankle.com/foot-health/drill/3-problems/30-neuroma

    I think that the greatest strength of BRS is that we can share and learn from each other's experiences. Good luck!
     
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  18. calnebarefoot

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    Correct toes and rest from running is what sorted me out.

    Still get hard pads on 2nd toe though.
     
  19. Sid

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  20. Barefoot TJ

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    Were you true barefoot or shod (Vivos or other) when you first experienced the pain in your left foot/toes?

    He suggested that you do the legwork and find other solutions instead of his looking? He's either lazy or uneducated about MN.

    Do you mean currents as in electricity (electroshockwave therapy)? If so, you should never apply electricity to an injured nerve. This is what was told to me by a pioneer in peripheral nerve surgery/technology, Dr. A. Lee Dellon (first to ever map the peripheral nervous system...).

    What sort of biomechanical issue did he say you have exactly?

    Those of us who have MN are predisposed to it genetically; we have a narrowing of the metatarsals. When we wear certain types of shoes (tight toe boxes and elevated heels), we compress our metatarsals into the nerves that run between them. The types of shoes we wear are the number one cause of MN. If we had stayed barefoot from birth, we never would have developed this condition.

    It seems they always say 80/20 for any treatment.

    That is some of the worse advice anyone could give. After I developed MN, I found I was able to run much further barefoot (real, true), 17 miles, before the MN pain would set in. I could only get not even a mile with shoes on. Traditional running shoes are among those types of shoes that are the worse for us to wear. It sounds like he is recommending you run on your heels and avoid your forefoot. Heelstriking, shod or barefoot, is not a good idea for anyone.

    I answered this above.

    I answered this above.

    I DEFINITELY think you should continue on with barefoot running AND living but with NO transition. Instead, go cold-turkey, all-out, forget the footwear completely (except only the healthiest when truly needed), and progress slowly. I wish I had gone that route, but instead, I, like so many people in our culture, was brainwashed into thinking I needed footwear to run. When I began experiencing the pain, I immediately began a ton of treatments that included custom-casted orthotics with metatarsal lift pads, cortisone, alcohol sclerosing injections, electroshockwave therapy with numbing injections, cryosurgery, traditional surgery, deep tissue massage (when they grew back into stump neuromas), and finally corrective surgery to relocate the two main nerve branches into my arch muscles (all of which added more and more scar tissue the the nerve sheath, which is what MN is, scar tissue). I believe that if I had stayed barefoot from the first onslaught of pain and never chased down all these treatments and surgeries to remedy the condition, I would be fine today! Don't do what I did. Don't be brainwashed. You don't need shoes to run, to live. Live barefoot and avoid doctors. See how far you can get in life.

    BTW, MN Talk is the only forum dedicated to Morton's Neuroma. NOTE: Morton's Neuroma is not a true neuroma (tumor); it's a perineural fibroma (fibrous tissue formation around nerve tissue.) and was first correctly described by a chiropodist named Durlacher.) There is literature that suggests changing the name of this condition. Check out MN Talk. See my signature. Hope to have you join us there!
     
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