Fellowship of the Morton's Toe

Discussion in 'Health, Nutrition, Injuries & Medical Conditions' started by Nyal, Sep 30, 2010.

  1. Barefoot TJ

    Barefoot TJ Administrator
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    In Dr. Burt's book, see the

    In Dr. Burt's book, see the TOEDUD post above in this thread, he says you can wear a toe pad you can create yourself to place under the first metty (big toe) to help lift to make it the prominent toe, as it supposedly should be. It's possible to make this toe pad so that you can run in it barefoot. That's something you might want to contact BRS member Nyal about to find out how he made it as he uses one he's created.

    About the toe space between the 1st and 2nd toes, that's actually good, ideal, what you should have.
     
  2. barefootpilot

    barefootpilot Barefooters

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    Quote:R and D has come to

    Seems like he didn't get on too well with it in the end.
     
  3. Joe Z

    Joe Z Barefooters

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    I'm very interested in Dr.

    I'm very interested in Dr. Schuler's answer to ev's question. On his website, he states that the hypermobile 1st met is believed to be hypermobile due to a loose tendon which allows the bone to move. If this tendon held the 1st met more tightly, then the bone would not be hypermobile. So, my hope is that with the right stimulation, strengthening or activation, the tendon will eventually tighten up (such as through barefoot running, or other exercises perhaps). I don't know if using the met pad would assist this process or hinder it, however. I could see how it might help it, but I could also see how it might hinder the process. I once used an insert that had a 1st met "pad", but the elevated pad was made out of a very firm material, and after about one month I developed a very sore spot right where the pad touched my foot, so I got rid of them and have not used any type of pads since then. Maybe I should reconsider using some sort of (softer) pad.
     
  4. ElyDave

    ElyDave Barefooters
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    1. 1st metatarsal is shortened to the extent that the big toe appears to be shorter than the 2nd toe. - Check

    2. The 1st metatarsal is supposed to be the primary support during running and walking, but our reduced metty forces the 2nd metty to assume the load. This is the cause of a myriad of problems.

    What are symptoms of MT while transitioning to BFR?

    1. Callouses forming under the 2nd metty head. – Check – big time calloussey feet, mainly toes

    2. Pain or tendernous localized in the same region. - check

    3. A feeling of pressure or that there is a big fat rock in your foot, again under the 2nd metty head. – naah, maybe not

    4. A strong tendency to injure or strain the 2nd through 5th metties, including stress fractures and TOFP in that part of the foot. – not so far

    5. A tendency for you peroneal tendons on the inside ankles to get tedonitis (strains) or tendonosis (tears). – more on the outside of ankles for me, but it’s chronic

    6. Asphalt owns your ass. – Oh yeah!



    Glad to see I’m special!

    I was always wondering why minimalist running (huaraches and trail gloves) was no problem, but BF has been very difficult for me with lots of foot shredding runs even though I can’t see any obvious form issues.

    Only a mild degree of 1st metatarsal shortening if you look at the photo (later, can't get it to work - why can't we insert images directly?), but a huge amount of callousing on my soles with very thick callouses on pad under the 2nd metatarsal head. I also have very crooked toes from birth, so I also get callouses on the toes themselves.

    I tend to suffer from fairly chronic peroneal tendinitis, which I’d always attributed to ankle injuries in rugby, but may be related to this.

    As for the BF transition, I’ve been very frustrated with this and have had most of the winter off after a seriously foot shredding run (blood everywhere, loads of blisters etc) and stuck with the minimalist footwear. I’ve picked it up again slowly in the last couple of weeks and will continue to do so, but I think I’ll drop my thoughts about BF racing for a while.

    The other thing that I get, and not sure if it’s related or not is occaisional pain in the knuckle of the first toes. This tends to be activity related and comes on more from rowing and cycling than running (I think), and was so severe at one point that I thought I might have gout.

    As for a Viking toe name, with a name like David Neilson, I think I qualify. I’m told that it’s a Danish or Norwegian origin. I’m happy to have a name selected for me, but I would humbly request to be known as Dave the Flatlander.
     
  5. Lomad

    Lomad Barefooters
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    Dave, your check boxes are eerily close to my own. I ended up with a very painful 2nd met injury and have been running in non-minimal footwear as of late(which has greatly helped my met feel better fast); each effort at barefoot have ended in setbacks, particularly the local chip-seal paving owning me. I've made a couple successful yet short huarache runs, but still have lingering soreness that don't occur with a more cushioned option. I am considering a thicker Luna sandal for my next huarache addition to see if more protection helps...Sadly, fully bf running doesn't look to be on my radar for some time; if at all.
     
  6. Barefoot TJ

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    I was watching Shallow Hal again last night (Jack Black and Gwineth Paltrow), where this really pretty, young girl rides her bike over to Hal and his friend (plays on Seinfeld-what's his name). The camera pans down to her Morton's Toe hanging over the rim of her sandals. The whole time she is talking to them , they're treating her like dirt. Then when she rides away, the friend says, geez, did you see that toe! Gross!

    Ha! I never noticed that scene in the movie before. I have gross toes now, I guess.
     
  7. ElyDave

    ElyDave Barefooters
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    Hey Lomad, glad to see you over here as well. I always thought you were going pretty well with the whole BF thing.

    It's the chip and seal that really gets me as well, and I have some pretty harsh stretches of it round here. The huaraches have really saved my feet. Mine are home made with a 4mm rubber and leather top. I still find I have to be a bit careful with these from the point of view of laces, as if they're not tight enough I tend to suffer from hot spots from the friction.

    The thing I've been working on lately is trying not to think about my feet and how they're landing, but just to let them work naturally, and not to grip the huaraches with my toes.
     
  8. migangelo

    migangelo Chapter Presidents
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    well my big toe isn't shorter than my second but the first met head is definitely shorter than the second. i have a big callous under my second mets and my left foot always feels like there's a rock there. i get strain in my 2-5 mets and did develop some massive pain there last year. i didn't run for most the summer.
    it all sucks but i still prefer bf over shod anything. i don't know how you guys can do it if your pain is worse than the little discomfort i feet. amazing.
    it is getting better though. one of the docs on here posted about your first met getting deformed because of shoes so you have to actively engage it to build strength. i've been doing that for a few months now. it's getting better. still not great, but definitely better.
     

  9. BarefootGburg

    BarefootGburg Barefooters

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    So, after realizing I have lots of the symptoms of morton's toe, I stretched my toes down and, indeed, my second met is longer than my first. Not a lot longer, but longer. Which explains why I have that big ass callous under my 2nd toe. And it hurts. Not exactly sure how to keep running barefoot. I'm going to put a little pad under my first toe met and see if it makes the whole thing less painful.

    Damnit. I really like running barefoot. Really like it. But the pain is just getting worse as the callous gets bigger.
     
  10. Nyal

    Nyal Chapter Presidents
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    How long have you been running BF? We have determined that many of the symptoms of MT dispel about 18 months to 2 years into the transition. I can teach you to make a BF orthotic, but it really it counterproductive and could extend the period.
     
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  11. ElyDave

    ElyDave Barefooters
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    I've been suffering from pain in the big joint of the big toe for a couple of weeks. Had it periodically in the past, but this seems worse with pain also radiating up to the top of the foot along the line of the tendon.

    Any thoughts as to whether this is related to Morton's Toe, or just a reaction to me bumping up the mileage a couple of weeks ago?
     
  12. SillyC

    SillyC Barefooters
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    ElyDave - go see your doctor. It could be gout. Maybe not if the pain is going up the tendon... but it's worth getting it looked at. No amount of playing with your form or your mileage is going to fix gout.
     
  13. ElyDave

    ElyDave Barefooters
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    Silly,

    I have thought of gout in the past, but there is no visible inflammation or swelling, and no feeling of heat in the joint which I thought were characteristic?
     
  14. BarefootGburg

    BarefootGburg Barefooters

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    I think swelling and heat are symptoms of gout.

    A couple of years ago, I was waking up every few nights with terrific pain in my right big toe that would last for 24 hours or so, then go away. It radiated up my toe into my foot. I thought gout.. what else? I couldn't think of anything else.

    I was looking carefully at it one day, after a bout of pain. I looked carefully at the toenail near the bed, and saw a ridge. Then I realized it.... the toe nail was being pushed off my a fresh one underneath it. I remembered the hammer drop that damaged the toe nail a few months before, but I didn't think I hit it hard enough to make it fall off, and there was none of that trauma that usually goes with it.

    It was a relief and, sure enough, it came off two weeks later, with a nice clean nail growing underneath it.

    Check it carefully. Who knows? maybe that's all it is.
     
  15. BarefootGburg

    BarefootGburg Barefooters

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    That's encouraging. I usually run three miles around a park on pavement. I'm thinking maybe I'll alternate a lap on pavement with a lap on the grass for a while.

    Any exercises that might help? Migangalo?
     
  16. migangelo

    migangelo Chapter Presidents
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    no relief for me yet, only more pain. with engaging my toes my left shin now feels like it's being turned and not in a comfortable way. i put on my TG's to walk my dog today and my foot and leg felt great. my sandals have been bothering me.
    i hit the trails yesterday and definitely felt it under my 2nd mets.
     

  17. BarefootGburg

    BarefootGburg Barefooters

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    Yeah, I tried engaging my big to met joint tonight resulting in pain in my shin. I tried getting my heels down more quickly, resulting in an unpleasant sensation in my achilles. The only things that seem to lessen the pain is running faster thinking only about lifting my feet straight up (and otherwise not thinking of them at all).
     
  18. paraganek

    paraganek Barefooters
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    I could confirm that. I am in my 22nd month of my transition and definitely seeing much of an improvement.
     
  19. Barefoot TJ

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    I would guess that engaging your big toe is exposing a weakness in your shins, guys, and that's why you're feeling it there. Perhaps more shin strengthening.
     
  20. BarefootGburg

    BarefootGburg Barefooters

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    Maybe, but it feels more like strain than like weakness (and believe me, I know what weakness feels like;) ). It feels unnatural and the opposite of relaxed.
     

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