Dairy - Yes or No or Maybe

Discussion in 'Health, Nutrition, Injuries & Medical Conditions' started by palouserider, Jan 30, 2012.

  1. palouserider

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    I decided to start a topic on dairy so we can all learn together about. Share resources, experiences. If you posted in the "wheatbelly" thread it would be great if you could move your post. :)

    I know that milk from another species can not exactly be considered a natural food. After all, milk is for babies. Still milk of a variety of pasture animals has been used in many cultures for thousands of years. Commonly used milk includes sheep, goat, cow, caribou, horse and camel.

    It is also not uncommon for humans to raise one species on the milk of another species. Arabian Horses in the Middle East are often fed camel's milk because it is richer instead of their mother's milk. Many people have raised puppies or kittens on goat milk successfully.

    So what do you think?
     
  2. BarefootGburg

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    Can't drink cow's milk

    Can't drink cow's milk (although I do like cheese of any milk type). I can't imagine that any other milk would be better for my stomach.

    I have nothing against it, though.
     
  3. Lomad

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    I've cut almost all dairy out

    I've cut almost all dairy out of my diet (can't give up ice cream just yet, and the occasional mexican food or Pizza binge for cheese). I feel 10 times better since giving up milk on a day-to-day basis. I use almond milk mostly, but will have soy when I'm out and about (lattes, etc).
     
  4. randicoot

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    I've never had a problem with

    I've never had a problem with dairy. I have lowfat yogurt, kefir or skim milk in the morning when I eat cereal (which has oat but also wheat flour). I got a quart of goat's milk one time and found it very filling, much more so than whole cow's milk. It would be good for feeding a growing body. I like most cheeses, if only because I didn't like/eat much cheese as a kid and I'm making up for it. For the record, my blood type is B+.

    I've often wondered if I would notice the effects of changes in my diet, but for better or worse, I'm kind of old school when it comes to paying attention to feelings, that is, I don't notice them for months, if at all. I was taking extra vitamin D during the 6 darker months for 2 or 3 years before I noticed that I didn't get as gloomy/depressed.
     

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  5. palouserider

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    I've learned a little more

    I've learned a little more about milk when one of our local farmers across the border in Idaho started selling raw milk and milk products. Raw milk has many ingredients that are not found in pasteurized (heated) milk and definitely not in ultra-pasteurized (very high heated) milk.

    There is also a big difference if the milk comes from grass-fed or grain fed animals. In addition to this there are different types of cow milk, some of which will be much more likely to cause allergies than others. I believe Dairy farmers can breed certain strains that are less likely to produce allergies in people. I know that there is also a difference which breed of cow the milk comes from.

    Another possible problem with milk is homogenization. It means that the fat globules are broken into smaller pieces to keep the cream from separating on top. This is most likely what makes whole milk bad for your arteries, not the fat itself.

    I believe milk from Jersey cows for example, is very different from milk from Holstein cows (the most common breed used in factory farming). There is a lot more for me to learn:

    Here is a website that has a lot of info:

    http://www.raw-milk-facts.com/index.html



    It may not be necessary for everyone to give up dairy products completely. Some people have no trouble digesting yogurt, cheese, butter milk, kefir or butter but can't drink milk.
     
  6. PatrickGSR94

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    I've been drinking 2% milk

    I've been drinking 2% milk almost all my life (32 years today hah). I always remember drinking 2% when I was a kid, and still today. That fat-free milk junk is nasty, like white-colored water. I can't really recall having any issues, although who knows how I would feel if I cut it out. It would be really hard, though, as I love milk with cereal, and with cookies and stuff, and I'm not big on soy and other types of milk (too expensive, too).
     
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  7. Barefoot TJ

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    I've been drinking fat

    I've been drinking fat free/skim milk for years now. When I try to drink 2% or whole milk, it takes too rich, too creamy, but I used to love 2% and whole milk. So, it's really about how you want to train your taste buds.

    I'm going to be moving to almond and soy milk.
     
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  8. Barefoot TJ

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    I've copied this from the

    I've copied this from the Wheatbelly thread as instructed. :)



    I just watched Dr. Oz, and today's show was about how we can have an allergy to dairy and wheat, which causes inflammation, and it's the inflammation that causes us to get fat.

    Here's what I copied from his site and some notes:
    From Dr. Oz's show today... The short version: Number one cause of weight gain is food allergies with dairy being the worse. Avoid dairy, lactose, casein, whey Week 1: Remove all dairy Use almond milk, olive oil Week 2: Repair digestive tract Take probiotics Week 3: Reboot your body (to find out what you are allergic to) Add back dairy, record how you feel Dairy can be found in sliced meats, breads Yummy meal substitute for Mayo: Avocado mixed with tuna placed in bell pepper little cheese on top roast in oven. The long version:The Anti-Allergy Diet





    [​IMG] Are hidden food allergies making you gain weight? Mark Hyman, MD, has a 3-week anti-allergy diet to help get your system back on track so you can start shedding pounds.




    Are you doing all the right things yet you are still unable to lose weight? A hidden food allergy could be the culprit. Dr. Mark Hyman, New York Times best-selling author and an advocate for functional medicine, supports groundbreaking research linking food allergies to weight gain.



    Sudden-onset vs. Slow-onset Food allergies

    Most people think food-related allergic reactions are sudden and fast acting – such as peanut or shellfish allergies which can cause immediate inflammation (an IgE immune response), resulting in swelling or difficulty breathing and can be life-threatening. On the other hand, dairy, which can be hidden in many everyday foods causes a far less acute allergic reaction, creating inflammation hours or even days later (an IgG immune response). Up to 60% of the population could be affected by hidden sensitivities to foods such as dairy.



    Dairy Allergy and Weight Gain

    Foods with dairy can cause unhealthy bacteria to overgrow and produce toxins that cause systemic inflammation that swells the intestines and prevents normal digestion, causing weight gain, among other conditions such as irritable bowel. In fact, you can gain up to 30 pounds a year due to a dairy allergy.



    Lastly, a dairy allergy is tied to inflammation in the gut, as opposed to lactose intolerance, which is an inability to digest the milk sugar called lactose.



    The first step to finding out if a dairy allergy is making you gain weight is to identify both the main and hidden sources of dairy in your diet.

    Hidden Dairy Sources:



    Desserts: Cakes, muffins, cookies and chocolate may contain basic dairy ingredients along with “hidden” dairy derivatives such as casein or whey, both milk proteins. Be sure to look for these ingredients on labels and avoid them.



    Deli Meats and Fish: Processed meats often contain dairy products such as lactose, casein and caseinates that act as emulsifiers or flavor enhancers. Meats labeled “kosher” will be dairy-free. Be aware that some brands of canned tuna contain casein.



    Bread: Both white and wheat bread often contain casein, whey or milk powder. Freshly baked yeast breads are sometimes prepared in buttered pans or brushed with butter as they bake. Ask your baker if this is the case.



    Energy Bars: Countless brands of protein and energy bars consist primarily of whey protein. As with all of the above, remember to read these food labels very carefully as well.



    The 3-Week Anti-Allergy Plan



    To find out if you could be allergic to dairy, follow this plan based on the 3 “Rs”: Remove all dairy, repair your digestive track, and reboot your body.



    Week 1: Remove All Dairy

    Remove all the dairy from your diet for an entire week, which is how long your system needs for internal inflammation to settle down. Replace dairy milk with almond milk, which tastes good and has high quality protein and fat in it. In addition, replace butter with olive oil, a great source of good fat that contains oleic acid and anti-inflammatory properties.

    Week 2: Repair Your Digestive Track

    If your gut is damaged by dairy, repair it with healthy bacteria found in probiotics. Choose a probiotic supplement that contains b
    oth bifidobacterium and lactobacillus bacteria. Select a product in pill or powder form that has 10-50 billion colony-forming units (CFUs) and take that amount daily. Be wary of liquid-based products, which may not be as active, along with food products with added probiotics. Click here for a smart guide to purchasing probiotics.




    Week 3: Reboot Your Body

    Now that you have a clean digestive slate, it’s time to reboot and see if dairy was causing your weight gain. Start by adding one dairy food back at a time and keep a food log of your body’s reactions. Ask yourself: Am I more tired? Am I bloated? Do I have fluid retention? All of these potential factors could be clues that you have a hidden food sensitivity to dairy.



    If you think you’re allergic to dairy at the end of three weeks, see your doctor for a blood test, which can help determine if you have elevated levels of a certain antibody that could be causing inflammation. If you are indeed allergic, you can use the above plan stay allergy- and inflammation-free.


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  9. jldeleon

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    Dropping dairy was the other

    Dropping dairy was the other best thing I ever did for my health. There is even more controversy over that, than there is wheat -due tothe dairy industry dominating the media. However, it comes down to one simple scientific fact, that being, the human body does not produce the enzyme necessary to digest another species milk. And, the enzyme for human breast milk is only produced until age six. Due to the lack of that enzyme, the body will not digest milk correctly, causing the body to view it as an allergen and treats it as such, wearing down your immune system in the process. We are the only species in the world that purposefully (other than for survival) drinks another species milk.
     

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  10. Barefoot TJ

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    And this... All, wheat and

    And this...



    All, wheat and breads of any type (most of them, especially processed) contain dairy.

    Patrick, go back and read that post I made. In it Dr. Oz tells you the 3 week process to determine if you have a food allergy. Bascially, it's elimintaing dairy (and wheat and breads) to remove those things that could be causing you to gain weight, be bloated, experience achiness, tendon problems, arthritis, etc., etc., adding true high-dose probiotics, and reintroducing while recording what you eat to see if any problems are also reintroduced.

    They said, depending on the person, they've seen people who have followed this plan lose 10 pounds in the first week alone, that is cutting out dairy!
     
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  11. jldeleon

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    Also, people who have been

    Also, people who have been raised on dairy (like most people have) will not know how sick it has made them until they stop drinking/eating it. How could they? When I do eat some dairy now, a sprinkling of cheese, a kid's size frozen yogurt, or a couple bites of ice cream, as time goes on, my body reacts more and more violently. My ND says this is a sign of the immune system becoming stronger and stronger the longer I stay away from wheat, dairy, etc. So it's ability to quickly eradicate dairy coming in, is a good sign.

    As for the goat milk, the hangup with that is supposedly it contains the enzyme that is closest to human milk, which is why it's supposedly more digestable. However, that is a moot point if you subscribe to the idea that our bodies stop producing the enzyme necessary to digest human milk by age six and don't have the enzyme necessary to digest another species milk, at all. A similar enzyme is not the same as the correct enzyme, so it matters little.

    I have heard the same things about pasteurization, and raw milk, etc., but again, I go back to the enzymes.
     

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  12. jldeleon

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    Significantly reducing wheat

    Significantly reducing wheat and dairy obliterated my belly fat. In about a year I had the flattest stomach I have ever had in my life. If I eat too much dairy or wheat, the first symptom I notice is bloating in the belly.
     

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  13. palouserider

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    I think I'll see what

    I think I'll see what eliminating wheat does and if I don't get the desired results I'll do the elimination test and add dairy back in slowly, starting with raw milk products that have all the enzymes intact.

    Thanks everyone for moving their posts. :)

    Jen, are there any books or websites you would recommend on this topic?
     
  14. NickW

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    I had to give up all dairy

    I had to give up all dairy products a few years back for nine months while I was taking a medication. I felt crummy the whole time. I rarely drink milk, but cheese is a nearly everyday food item for me. It made me depressed, screaming in my sleep from nightmares, and I just felt crummy (don't know how else to explain it) while not allowed to eat any of that stuff. Now, this was a forced giving up of one of my favorite food items so I don't know if that had something to do with this type of reaction I had. Seems weird that I had the opposite type of reaction that you all mention.
     
  15. jldeleon

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    Nick,Sleep disturbances and

    Nick,

    Sleep disturbances and depression are a frequent side effect of many medications. That was more likely the cause.
     

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  16. BarefootGburg

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    I'm not arguing with anything

    I'm not arguing with anything you say here, but can you imagine a species - other than humans - purposefully drinking milk from another species, and that other species allowing it? :)

     
  17. palouserider

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    It would be the exception in

    It would be the exception in the animals world for one species to drink the milk of another for sure, but humans are different in many ways from animals. Although genetically extremely similar to chimpanzees, I believe we share 99% of our DNA, we look and act very differently, and that has possibilities and liabilities. ;)

    If we choose to, we can benefit our species and others through our actions, chimpanzees can do so only in a very limited sense. I do think that we can consume dairy products without hurting another species since many produce more milk than they need to raise their babies but it takes a lot of planning and thought to do so humanely.

    I would like to see more info in how raw dairy in it's natural state is harmful for people who are not allergic.
     
  18. BarefootGburg

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    I wonder, though, if we did

    I wonder, though, if we did gather milk "humanely", would it be affordable?

     
  19. NickW

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    Jen there was a lot of other

    Jen there was a lot of other foods I couldn't eat too. Fish, shellfish, dairy, and a bunch of others. It really sucked. The food item I missed the most was dairy. I could give up any of the others and not miss it at all, but I love my cheeses. So, just posing a question here, where are we supposed to get our calcium from if we don't consume dairy? I guess I could go buy that processed orange juice that has calcium added to it... Or do we even need calcium like we've all been taught?
     
  20. rickwhitelaw

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    I'm a maybe, working toward

    I'm a maybe, working toward seldom. I rarely drink milk now, but I still eat cheese and yogurt. Several of my siblings and my mother have dairy allergies. I feel great now, but that could be other changes in my diet and lifestyle, so I can't give a reduction of dairy all the credit.

    Wheat is similar. I know I need to reduce, but it is hard finding alternatives. I have been replacing regular wheat with a few "ancient grain" products. I can tolerate small portions, but if I eat more than two servings at once I bloat a few hours later. So in my case, moderation is the key.

    As a farmer (we raise alfalfa and small grains for forage), I could probably add a lot to this post, but I don't want to make my reply too long. It is all about yield. Yield will always generate more cash flow than producing for quality. The products we are mass producing today do not have the nutrition that they used to. Every meeting I go to is about buying this new genetically modified seed, what chemicals to put on, and what fertilizer to put on to maximize yields. There is little talk about developing niche markets to produce for quality. Most farmers are under too much debt to change, even if they wanted to.

    Palouserider, thank you for starting these threads. I am always looking to expand my nutrition knowledge and looking for new ways to do things. I subscribe to Nutrition Action Healthletter. It has a lot of good articles. http://www.cspinet.org/nah/

    Rick W.
     

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