Concurrent Strength Training & Running 2015: Eight-Week Workout Cycle VI

Discussion in 'Training Information/Training Regimens' started by Bare Lee, Oct 9, 2015.

  1. BroadArrow

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    Barefooters
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    well, i don't really come from a running family. my brother's training this year consisted of, i dunno, 10 miles instead of 3. now he's thinking that maybe he should try to actually train for it next year... we managed to convince my dad to come out and do one of the shorter races by promising nice fall leaf colors and time with grandchildren. it was his first race ever. :) in the event, he wrote down some projected times so my step-mom could meet him at the turnaround aide station. let's just say that she (along with my crew) only saw him because he futzed around: he beat his first half projection by half an hour and then cut off another half hour on the return trip so no-one saw him cross the finish line, either. :) he claims it was fun, but once was enough. we'll see if he still feels the same way when (i think) the age group award arrives in the mail....

    i'm spending this week trying to completely rid myself of this silly cough, so you probably won't see much activity from me on the logs until next week.
     
  2. Bare Lee

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    Oh, I thought you were all doing the 50-miler. I was wondering how they could just jump right in like that. Hope your silly cough is less serious.

    That's one of the nice things about microloading: you get these daily or weekly pats on the back every time you increase the load by a little, even if the effort level feels the same.

    I went through two inner tubes with very slow leaks on the spoke side over the last few weeks before I realized they were just wearing out after 20 plus years of existence. It started when I changed tires. Good thing I didn't waste my time trying to repair them. I was about to try, but the second tube ripped about a centimeter in a different area as I was inflating it. Now I've got some Schwalbe tubes in there. I've also ordered some Schwalbe studded tires for winter. That's another downside to cycling, besides the greater expense compared to running, is the greater maintenance, but perhaps this is countered by the lesser maintenance required for the body. Still, gotta love the simplicity of running, especially BFR. My derailleur needs some adjustment, but I don't look forward to trying to remember how that's done. Oh, that's right, there's probably a good YouTube video on it.
     
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  3. Abide

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    Yep I tend to youtube everything first to get a general idea of what I am doing. There is always some stupid unique way the bike engineers designed how things fit together that you gotta be careful about. I can never remember which screws do what on my derailleur and a 2 minute job always ends up becoming a 2 hour job after I figure the whole contraption out, and then I promptly forget the whole process and need to relearn it every 6 months or so. I've been considering making my race bike a single speed to eliminate that whole process? I could just take of the derailleurs and cut the chain down to fit where I want it. I pretty much sit in the same gear most of the time anyway.

    I had to change out an additional 4 inner tubes over the weekend, and a couple of shifter cables that got mangled when I was taking the tires off. Now I don't even try to patch inner tubes and I toss them even if they are good when I change tires. It's funny how life changes when you have a little more disposable income laying around. I did buy a couple of pairs of metal levers after I broke three of the crap plastic ones on the side of the road. Its amazing how much easier they make life, scratched rims be damned!
     
  4. Bare Lee

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    Yah, when I was traveling by bicycle, I got decent at all the maintenance stuff, mostly out of necessity. I even re-spoked a wheel. But it was easier then because I was doing high mileage and thus maintenance all the time. Now like you say, it's hard to remember a skill you only practice once or twice a year. It's almost easier just to bring it into the bike shop, but I feel a bit embarrassed for simple tasks.

    It's true about the gears, I could make due with less. I'm not a very efficient shifter anyway. I could probably just use five different gears and be OK. One top gear for tailwinds, one granny gear for steep grades and then about three in between. I spend most of my time in the middle crank gear while shifting between the last three derailleur gears, so I could just use the first and third and then something in between that third gear and the granny gear, for less challenging grades. Those newer bikes with internal hub shifting and belt drives would really reduce maintenance.

    Funny with my reduced cycling, my knees feel better when I'm up and moving, but then when I'm sitting for a long time or sleeping, they can become painfully sore. Also, getting up the courage to try some hill running this Thursday. I would also be nice to register some token Winter Challenge mileage. I probably have some already from waking around.

    Finally, just read up a bit on RDLs versus SLDLs over breakfast and coffeee, spurred by a T-Nation article today on RDLs. Seems like what I'm doing is closer to RDLs than SLDLs, except some would say RDLs should be done with continuous tension, whereas I prefer touch-n-go. And it seems most say RDLs start from a rack position whereas I start my reps off the floor. Some also describe differences in depth, but I'm flexible enough to return the bar to the floor with my knees slightly bent, so I don't know if bar depth should be a defining criterion for distinguishing the two. Anyway, just terminology, seems like there are a lot of interpretations about what constitutes the two, much more than for conventional deadlifts. Perhaps I'll just call it the Lee-DL.

    Finally, also, getting up the courage to try some proper Pullups, but dreading finding out I still can't do one.
     
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  5. Abide

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  6. Abide

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    Might not be a bad idea, I have been thinking about making my Fridays a flexible day and just doing whatever I feel like. I haven't had a lot of motivation to do another heavy TBDL day, so I think just doing some simple circuits and other fun stuff might be more conducive and like you say encourage some multi-planar motion for health.

    By the way if you have shrader valves you should consider putting some of this http://www.amazon.com/Slime-10009-Tubeless-Tire-Sealant/dp/B000BOC2E2 or this http://www.amazon.com/Stans-No-Tube...113691&sr=8-1-catcorr&keywords=stans+no+tubes
    Saved me a lot of popped tires in AZ.
     
  7. Bare Lee

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    Yah, the mobility element has been missing in my training. It's probably just as important as the strength training and aerobic components. Also thinking of subbing some of the more endurance-based bike rides for more tempo rides or some other kind of conditioning work. I think this will have more carryover to my lifting. With running out, it's harder to get excited about endurance anyway. I find myself wanting to push the lifting and conditioning more.

    Also, the last two days my knees have felt as close to normal as they have since last spring, so I'm thinking of testing my Olympic or conventional deadlift on Friday, to get a clearer idea of whether or not they affect my knees. If I'm sorer afterwards, that would be a good indicator that they do affect them adversely. It's funny how the last year or more of reading meathead literature has gotten a bit of the powerlifting mentality ingrained in me. I just feel a little incomplete not knowing where my Oly deadlift is, although if it's a problem, it won't be that big of a deal saying good-bye to them forever. The Romanian Deadlifts work most of the same muscles, minus the initial leg drive, where the muscles involved are worked in the Squats already. Still, while I'm still able, it would be nice to see at least a 400-pound deadlift, a 350-pound squat, a 300-pound bench, and a 200-pound press. With this meniscus tissue issue, I feel a little more urgency to attain these goals, before I fall apart further, although I'm still committed to an ultra gradual approach in getting there.

    Thanks for the tip. I didn't know know you could use that stuff in bike tires, but some reviewers have had the same success you have. Do you have tubeless tires, or do you put the stuff in the tubes? I didn't have time to repair the leak yesterday either, maybe tonight. I'm curious to see if it's in the same spot as the other two have been. I have kevlar threaded tires and kevlar liners, so it could very well be something on the rim side. With such a slow leak (I probably could've pedaled a whole hour on Tuesday without stopping to reinflate) that goop might be the best way to go.

    I'm setting up a free-standing pull-up rack today in my office (http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B002Y2SUU4?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00). I can't really use the door-mounted one after everyone else arrives--it's only good first thing in the morning. With a rack inside, I can workout for 5-15 minutes during the day whenever there's a break in the action. It's sort of an extension of the full-body, high frequency approach, which has been working well for me, so why not push it a bit further, right? I really like how nothing is really hard or too intense anymore. Just don't have that young man's energy, but I want to improve nonetheless.
     
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  8. Abide

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    Yeah if you haven't thought about it you should read Pavel's grease the groove info to get some good ideas about work loads etc... and it seems like Pull ups have good results from doing what you are. Doing yoga during lunch has been great though so if you can do the pull up contraption why not.

    Yeah the sealant works better in the tubes than in tubeless tires. I went from having a flat a week to practically never getting a flat again so the $8 for a container was well worth it. It protects both ways too, but watch those spokes I think that's why mine went flat the last couple of days too.

    I hear you about running, it was really nice to get out there for a pain free run today. Its such a different feeling you get than from biking, more of a full body detox or something. The 100 mile/1,000 lb total for next year has been on my mind too. I think maybe barring any injuries it might be attainable.
     
  9. Bare Lee

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    Yah, thanks, here's a good summary I found: http://www.leanandmuscular.org/greasing-the-groove.php

    Besides frequency, lower intensity seems to be the key to the grease the groove approach, so I may have to start out with assisted pullups or slow eccentrics. I will do the same for dips if and when I grease their groove. So, if possible, 3-4 times a day, a few reps each time, on my non-lifting days, or at least Tuesday and Thursday. Even for Squats, I've found very gradual microloading helps keep the intensity moderate, and, together with a 3xweek frequency, I've made steady progress now for many months. Especially for older lifters, this +frequency/-intensity approach is probably a very good way to go. It was fun pushing the deadlifts over the summer and fall of 2014, but did rack up some injuries. Mostly due to stupidity, but the higher intensity might've had something to do with it too.

    I ordered some Slime, thanks. I also got some better rim liners (http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00M5408R4?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00). I'll wait till they arrive before I try to fix the leak and locate the problem. I like riding with high PSI, so it's a drag, literally, to head out with a slow leak and gradually increasing rolling resistance.

    Speaking of running, holding off on repairing the leak might be a good opportunity to try some hill running, if my knees continue to feel good. I'm thinking hills or intervals might be the best for my knee. I was impressed with how riding at a tempo pace the other day seemed to be less aggravating. Even shuffling about on my feet is more taxing than cycling. I think load and duration are the main factors, so it will be interesting to see if my knees can handle the load of running up a hill, but walking back down for a break.
    Yah, I widened my squat stance a hair this week and this naturally led to pointing my toes out at a greater angle. Seems to help. Besides relieving pressure on my kneecaps, it's also easier to achieve proper depth this way, and I think it helps get more hip drive involved. Funny you like to prime the Squats, I do the converse and use the Squats as my primer for everything else that follows. My Squat warm-up sets are my general warm-up.

    That's a nice supported row gizmo. I could try the head-supported, but for the time being, I'm committed to the purity of the Pendlay Rows. And I would think (bench-supported) one-handed dumbbell rows are just as good for relieving lower back strain as going heavier with supported barbell rows, and easier to set-up. For the Pendlay Rows, if you feel strain, you might be loading them too heavy. I know in my case, it's taken a while to accept lower loads in order to maintain strict form.

    I don't know how people run in sandals. I don't even like walking in them, makes me a bit more clumsy, but they're the only way to go in the summer when the shoe police are patrolling. If only I could convince them I'm actually in greater danger of torquing my knee or twisting my ankle in sandals than I am of stepping on something sharp and pointy with barefeet.

    Edit: put together my Pullup/Dip station. It's a lot sturdier and bigger than I imagined. Got in two sets of two reps with the Green Band so far this afternoon. This might work. I'm pretty sore from yesterday's dumbbell exercises and the pullovers though. Gotta start out with just a little grease I guess, until I can deepen the groove.
     
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  10. BroadArrow

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    well hey, my food theory is, of course, that food in the stomach screws everything up. but, that is just for me. i'm glad my asceticism can inspire helpful gluttony in others! :) maybe someday we can run a hundred together and i won't eat or drink anything and abide can see how much he can cram into a balloon-like abdomen. you know, just to confuse the bystanders...

    anyways, after my little time off, i think my weights theory is to focus primarily on squats and secondarily on press. i'm keeping the rows in there hoping for a little balance. but everything else is eliminated for the moment to keep the time commitment down. i am going to try semi-micro-loading (?milli-loading) with ankle weights so i can go in 2 and 3 pound jumps. i'm starting super low with the squats and will just try to keep it going up each workout. then, probably take the press up a little more slowly so that the overall effort remains tilted toward the squats.

    i haven't come up with a plan for running yet at all, although after one slow run, i've revived the speed over the last two. so, get out your random training generator to jolt my thought process into coming up with something clever...
     
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  11. Sid

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    My time commitment isn't too bad. I find spreading it out AM/PM over two days to be helpful, and I get some exercise twice daily. Each workset takes 5-10min followed by ~10min rest, during which I'm doing other things around the house, shaving, brushing my teeth, preparing dinner, etc.
     
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  12. Abide

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    I have been thinking about doing some hill sprints this weekend too, maybe I'll wake up early enough to get out there on Sunday. Although having two days off from exercising in a row has been kind of nice but eventually I need to start training to run a hundred.

    I think it may be the angle of the Pendlay rows that cause the fatigue. If I go too light I don't get much of an stimulus in the lats, however any weight actually seems to fatigue the lower back. It's definitely more of a fullbody lift than chest supported rows and because I do them first the latter lift suffers. Yeah the chest supported DB rows work great but I don't have DB's so I needed a way to overload. I might start doing the inverted ring rows again. and mix the back work up a little more.
     
  13. Abide

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    The Leadville lottery is coming up soon.

    Yeah funny how its the lack of food that screws me up. Probably has to do with speed, weight and other assorted variables that we'll never figure out. Sounds good about the hundred and now I'm gonna hold you to it! Well you can eat of course, and I might try some of Ricks sick beer drinking skills during it. Might as well suffer a bit buzzed.
     
  14. Bare Lee

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    What, no pullups? You were part of my inspiration to become more serious about pullups and giving the grease the groove approach a try. As a runner, I think you're right to emphasis squats though. Fractional loading is another term I've seen used. I kinda like that better actually. Maybe I'll switch to that. It will be interesting to see how you like this approach. I love it, obviously.

    I think you're something of an outlier when it comes to nutrition. That, and running in jeans.
    I admire your efficiency! And spreading the workout out like that might be considered another instance of the high frequency/grease the groove approach. But 5-10 minutes for a workset? You must've meant 5-10 minutes to get through the worksets for a given exercise, right? My first 10-15 minutes of a workout are usually spent tidying up the garage while I do my squat warm-up sets. Whenever I try to do something else, however, I usually end up taking too much time in between sets and lose my pump/warm-up.
    Hmmn, I think for me, one rest day a week works best. I seem to do best when I maintain a daily rhythm. Incorporating grease-the-groove pullups on my non-lifting days will test the frequency/consistency thesis further.

    My knees continue to feel better, so the time will soon be ripe to test some running. But first I want to test the conventional deadlifts. Unfortunately, I'm getting a bit of a sore throat and mild body aches, so I don't know if I'll be able to do it today.

    I dunno about the Pendlay Rows. I assume you're doing them correctly, but I know from my own experience it took a while to get everything just right. I also find them most beneficial towards the end of the workout, so I'm using them more for a pump than for strength-building exercise. But finishing with a P Row and then Bench after doing the harder lifts really gives me a satisfying pump at the end of the workout. Maybe it's working the top and the bottom and then hitting the middle?

    I kind of remembered you not having dumbbells in Europe, so yeah, head-supported or inverted would probably be your best bet. Head-supported, like you say, might give a little stimulus to the neck too. Will have to try that at some point.
     
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  15. BroadArrow

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    i still haven't figured out a good setup for pullups in our now-not-so new place. my "office" is upstairs with the earlier mentioned ceilings that are 6-inches lower than standard, so i would definitely have to do bent knees at the bottom to set the bar low enough to avoid cracking my head on the ceiling at the top. but, it could be done i suppose. maybe i should just break down and do it. last month, i had been taking the kids to the park a lot and we would play a lot of "american ninja warrior", so i was traversing monkeybars and swing supports with bent arms and hopping left-to-right and all that. but i haven't done much for the last couple weeks.

    as to a hundred, i sort of feel like i need to get a little stronger on the 50 first. but, then again, at my level of (non-)talent, you're probably never actually ready. and, as a wannabe purist, the soles of my feet will almost assuredly be the weak spot which desire slightly better surface choices than what you report that leadville affords. (i think i need a steady diet of chip-n-seal...) maybe the black hills 100 with about 90% walking? then we would need lee to commit to pacing whatever the last section is....
     
  16. Bare Lee

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    Yah, I'm good a riding my bike slow.

    I like your purist commitment, that's probably the way I would go. It's certainly the way I went.

    Unrelatedly, with this flu bug and time off from training, my knees are feeling really good, so I may take an experimental approach when I get back to it, if not today, then maybe Wednesday. I'll try squats first for a few days, then reintegrate cycling, to see what the irritation threshold is. It's really nice to walk around without any soreness whatsoever, and probably best for the long term health of the joint (putting off knee replacement until I'm nearly dead).

    For pullups, I'm thinking of starting off with about 20-25 reps of assisted (Green Band) pullups on my non-lifting days, and then either increase the reps or lower the resistance of the bands (go to Serious Steel's Blue Band). I think the idea is to get most of the stimulus with the pulldowns on my lifting days, but then grease the groove on the off-days, until a bodyweight pullup has been achieved. Today is my first day without any sort of low-grade fever body aches, and I can really feel the myo-urges. It's been a mild flu bug, but more persistent than I thought it would be.
     
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  17. BroadArrow

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    my weight training has been inconsistent. but then last night my flight got fogged out (looking out the terminal windows, the airplane was obscured, so it was only a matter of time before they cancelled it). so, i got to do a little after all. :)

    since it had been a few days, i was tempted to keep the squat weight the same. then i figured that the whole point of microloading is to keep it going, so i moved up to the super-heavy 75lbs. and it was just fine. obviously, i need to keep going. i'm hoping to soon, but slowly, get my squat above my, uh, press and rows. anyways, i've been running faster and even getting in some chip-n-seal, so that's good, i think.
     
  18. Bare Lee

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    Well, my own personal take on microloading is that the whole point is to make increases imperceptible. The actual rate of increase is secondary. Could be daily, weekly, monthly, . . . whenever you can increase without noticing the difference. I like my workouts to be mindless, and it helps when I can approach the bar knowing already that I can complete the set. I'm shying away from anything challenging these days, going for consistency @ moderate intensity above all else.

    Speaking of which, I've missed a whole week now, with this low-grade flu and then blowing off yesterday's workout when I could've done it--my energy levels were close to normal again--after receiving some good news and deciding to celebrate a little instead. I was super tired anyway, but hopefully today I'll get back on the bandwagon. Starting to feel soggy, and I miss that feeling of post-workout protein synthesis rumbling through my body mass.

    Got some new rim tape and ground down three spokes that were poking through the old rim rubber strip almost imperceptibly. So the mystery of the slow leaks has been solved. Two leaks lined up with where two of the three pokey spokes were. I ground down a third just to be safe. These new tires are super hard to take on and off, so hopefully I won't have to deal with a flat for a while now. I got Kevlar threaded tires and Kevlar liners and I'll put some Slime in later today. That should do it although I wonder how much extra rolling resistance I've added.

    Edit: Oh, and there's also a theory that says that building up more slowly will allow you to go further in the end, and make your gains less likely to recede if you take time off. I think both Nuckols and Thibaudieu have endorsed this view. I've deloaded several of my lifts in order to align them better with the Iron Ratio, but I think this may have long-term benefits as well. Bringing everything up slowly, in structural balance, may provide for a better base in the future, and allow me to go further. Of course, it could all just be the power of suggestion too.
     
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  19. Sid

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    Got some more microloading plates, 0.25, 0.5, 0.75, 1 lb. Am finding that certain exercises progress more quickly than others.

    Have also been working more on form, so I have dialed it back 15-20lbs for each exercise. I figure it's better to do it right.

    Making decent progress on pullups. Went from 2 per set to 6. The negatives seem to help.
     

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