Concurrent Strength & Endurance Training 2017: Cycle I

Discussion in 'Training Information/Training Regimens' started by Bare Lee, Dec 28, 2016.

  1. Barefoot Dama

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    Great idea Abide, I didn't think about that. I am going to try to find that study where I read the article about stairs to running conversion. So for now I am going to stick to the 30/40 minutes of vigorous stair climbing equals to five miles of running.
     

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  2. Abide

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    Nice DL jumps from early on! Glad to see your consistency is coming back.

    Yeah I think I may potentially try the 400 DL in a week or two. I was actually surprised how sore my back was the next day. And I could still feel it on Saturday when I was running. I really suspect I wont be able to hit 180 again. I really think things converged for me for some reason?

    Oh I posted a race report about last weekend speaking of soreness, https://6movements.wordpress.com/2017/01/14/gr10-xtrem-94k/
     
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  3. Bare Lee

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    Nice write-up! Very inspiring to read about your adventures, although always tinged with a bit of nostalgia for my past ones as well. Yah, you're a true ultraholic now. But it seems like you've learned how to do it safely, know your limits, so why not go for it? I'm hoping that by limiting myself to one bike ride a week, I'll be able to get in some longer rides again and get back that feeling of adventure a little bit too. But there aren't too many inspiring places to pedal nearby.

    And your deadlift was inspiring as well. Lifting 220 today, 400 seems unattainable, but my faith in progressive overload is absolute now and I know with enough consistency I can get there too. I have no idea how long it will take though. I feel like this week I'm close to establishing my true, current strength levels, which are about 70% of where they were a year ago. So not too bad. But it's still an open question how quickly I can progress from here. I doubt it will take the same amount of time it took me the first time my Deadlift and Squat climbed over 200, but how much quicker? Twice as fast? I'm thinking six months but it could just as easily be three months or a whole year. And then it will be a question of whether it's worth it or not to push on beyond that.

    Anyway, thanks for the encouragement! I think the early morning routine is going to stick this time. I have enough built-in flexibility that I should be able to better handle all the interruptions that come with family and work life. The garage gym is still there for afternoon a workout if I miss the morning one, and I'm becoming less self-conscious about hitting Anytime Fitness during the day with my bare feet and poor conditioning. In fact, I think I'm beginning to warm to the idea of having a bit of an audience once my loads start to get up there a bit more.
     
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    #23 Bare Lee, Jan 17, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2017
  4. Abide

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    Hey thanks, yeah just trying to take advantage of seeing some new places. That's what I love about ultra's you basically get to tour through country you would never otherwise be exposed to. Yeah I keep telling myself I will start doing more biking but for some reason I can't seem to get motivated to go more than just commuting to work. Maybe when it warms up a bit, riding in the cold really is a different not quite as fun experience.

    I think you will see the strength will come back quick. Now you probably don't have to worry about form adjustments so you can focus a little more on raw strength. I think I will still take your advice about squatting from a while back and set my goal for a six plate squat by the end of the year, actually I'd be ecstatic if I could also do a six plate bench but I think my shoulders too screwed up for those levels anymore. But yeah first the squat since that will probably have more impact on the running and hill climbing anyway.
     
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  5. Bare Lee

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    Yah, I'm thinking 3-6 months is probably realistic, barring any setbacks, knock on wood. I read somewhere that when you get stronger you actually permanently change the structure of your muscles cells, so there's less work the second time around. In the past, this has always seemed true for my bench press. Once I got up to 225-245, I've found I can always get back there pretty quickly, like 1-3 months. Squatting and Deadlifting heavy are new experiences for me but I would imagine the same rule applies. It's just that I'm extra cautious now. There was a good article in T-Nation today: https://www.t-nation.com/training/the-best-way-to-get-motivated-for-the-gym. Actually I only read the first entry and then skimmed the rest, but I like what Thibaudieu says about different programs yielding similar results, so just choose whatever you enjoy the most. That's how I'm feeling about the KISS Triple approach. Three lifts, three reps, three sets, that works for me.
     
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  6. Sid

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  7. IraR

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    You guys and gals are pretty inspiring. I've never been great at keeping track of what I've been doing, not even my brief time lifting. I've got a funky, slightly hunched body (from all those book-bags as well as the cello, the accordion, the trombone, the tube-amps, & the keyboards (remember the heavy Fender-Rhodes?) I used to carry around as a teen. My arms don't fully straighten on overhead lifts, so the coaches all told me I've got to be pretty careful. The last few months I've had a bit of pain in my left shoulder. My physical therapist friend says nothing's torn, but it seems to be a supraspinatus tendonitis and I've got to be careful. I'll probably go back to pull-ups soon, carefully. For now, I'm concentrating on doing my yoga along with the running. I'm doing just the beginning of the Primary Series of Ashtanga, Mysore-style, for about an hour in the mornings. At my gym, the Ashtanga coach is on hand starting at 6 am, although I can start before that. I'll report my attendance.
     
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  8. Abide

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  9. Abide

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    Yeah I'm a big Ashtanga fan too. It's a good way to fix shoulders.
     
  10. Bare Lee

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    Hey good to hear from you Sid!

    Abide, let us know if you find something useful. For my part, I feel like I've more or less covered all I need to know, and have found what works best for me.

    Sounds good! Good to have you on board.

    As a bass player, I'm very happy to be living in the era of amp heads that weigh less than four pounds!

    I've found getting serious about back work (deadlifts, rows, pullups/pulldowns) has really helped me keep my shoulders healthy.
     
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  11. Sid

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    Things are going well.

    As far as the links, I found them helpful to learn about
    - auto-regulation through AMRAP sets
    - using INOL to compare different programs and select reps, sets, and weight accordingly
     
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  12. Bare Lee

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    Cool. Apologies for not reading through, but I'm trying hard these days to limit my non-essential online time. I looked up the acronyms just now however.

    Seems to me, in an older vocabulary, 'AMRAP' was "lifting to failure." A common finishing technique, often using drop sets. I may begin doing some of this once I'm back up to my past strength levels in 2-6 months.

    'Auto-regulation' is pretty much what I do these days, constantly adjusting my loading as I make progress, or taking a day or two off when I feel a slight niggle. I think auto-regulation is pretty much what all lifters learn to do once they attain intermediate status.

    Then 'INOL' appears to codify the basic notion that there is a balance between volume and intensity. We've discussed this a lot in previous threads and I used to incorporate this in my "weekly 5-7-3 wave" programming, with my three-rep workout representing high intensity, the seven-rep day representing high volume, and the five-rep workout having about equal intensity and volume. I even used bar graphs!

    Anyway, this cycle I'm experimenting with an extremely simple "high intensity, low volume" approach. Just three lifts x three sets x three reps, each rep @ 90% 1RM. The advantage, for me, is mostly mental--making each workout very easy and doable, which in turn encourages consistency, the single most important training protocol, one which has been severely lacking for a long while.

    I agree all three concepts are very helpful. But perhaps the single biggest insight I gained when I was looking through the lifting literature 2014-2015 was that there are essentially just six essential lifts or movements, plus or minus one or two, depending on who you talk to. These are the approaches espoused by Wendler and Rippetoe.

    I've come up with my own set of basic lifts, based on a simple notion of push/pull pairings along three planes: Horizontal (Bench Press & Rows) and Upper Vertical (Overhead Press & Pullups/Pulldowns) and Lower Vertical (Squats & Deadlifts).

    This cycle, these lifts are organized into a Push Workout (Squat, Bench Press, Overhead Press) and a Pull Workout (Deadlift, Row, Pullup).

    I'm also trying to incorporate sled work this cycle, so I do a sled push on the Push workout day, and a sled pull on the Pull workout day.

    Then, finally, I'll try to do something aerobic at the end of the each workout that also corresponds, roughly, to a pushing or pulling movement. For pulling, it's pretty easy: I'll do stationary rowing. For pushing, I'm going to first try the elliptical machine, and if I don't like that, stationary bicycle, but I would prefer to reserve pedaling for real cycling outside once a week.

    Are you still running?
     
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    #32 Bare Lee, Jan 27, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2017
  13. Sid

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    AMRAP in this case occurs at a high intensity after warmup, targeting a 5RM. One could think of it as Intensity Day from the Texas Method. Then, there are lower intensity sets that follow.
     
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  14. Bare Lee

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    OK, I get it. Have you been trying it? If so, what have the results been like?
     
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  15. Sid

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    Results have been good. Lifts are increasing. I'm doing Texas Method with some modifications. I have Intensity Day on different days for different lifts to better manage fatigue.

    The program that I referenced uses AMRAP to autoregulate increases in weight. The Texas Method already does this by design.

    I'm finding INOL to be useful in making sure that my workouts provide enough stimulus. On a day where I might be too tired for 5x5 at 90%, I might do sets of 5, 5, 6, 7, 8 reps instead. Using the INOL formula allows me to calculate an appropriate amount of weight for each set, so that the overall workout approximates 5x5 difficulty.

    I'm not running as much. With 3 days of full body lifts, I need more time to recover. I walk a fair amount on the treadmill.
     
  16. Sid

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  17. Bare Lee

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    Yah, once I get up closer to my old strength levels, I may have to do something similar, emphasizing different lifts on different days. But I'm hoping the low volume of my 3x3 protocol will mitigate this.

    Are you cutting back on the running in order to concentrate on strength, as recommended in that article link? Or are you just needing a break? I found cycling much more compatible with lifting. Running definitely takes more out of you.
     
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  18. Sid

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    I've been able to maintain weight with watching what I eat, lifting, walking, and yardwork, so I haven't felt a need to run or swim. Honestly, focusing on more lifting has taken up so much time and energy, I just haven't had the opportunity to do much cardio.
     
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  19. IraR

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    During Jan. 23-29, 2017 I made it to four Ashtanga yoga sessions, about 1.25 hours. each. I've got very tight musculature and connective tissue (my teacher calls it "fascia from hell," although he and others have said that it may also keep me from getting injured as often as some people) so that's plenty of sweat for me. I'm just doing part of Primary Series, much of which I do double or quadruple sets of, only up to Marichiyasana A, with a lot of "simplified" versions of poses and transitions my body simply can't do, before doing closing poses. And I rewarded myself with four nice-long steam-sauna sessions, not necessarily on days I was doing yoga, which also helps me loosen-up, particularly since I always stretch and do some poses, and maybe even some ab work, there as well. That and my running, which I'll post in Mileage Reporting.
     
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  20. Abide

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    Hey sorry missed this last time I went through your post.

    You seem to have them worked in pretty well. For my schedule I would probably mix them in with back day and likely superset them with my back work. Although now I do back work almost everyday and basically treat it as ancillary work. You would definitely get your heart rate going.

    Hey seems like you are getting your consistency mojo back and getting back to high weights pretty quickly. Its pretty cool too see. Although since you have till May to get to 400 I think I may need to go for my 182.5kilo DL this week or next. I'm gonna drop some weight over the next month so the time is now! I'll let you know about the results.
     
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