Concurrent Strength & Endurance Training 2016: Cycle I

Discussion in 'Training Information/Training Regimens' started by Bare Lee, Jan 2, 2016.

  1. Abide

    Abide
    Expand Collapse
    Barefooters
    1. Nederland -...

    Joined:
    May 13, 2010
    Messages:
    3,245
    Likes Received:
    1,046
    http://blackironbeast.com/power-to-the-people
    http://danjohn.net/2011/06/even-easier-strength-perform-better-notes/

    Here are a couple plans that are similar to your thinking, with some differences from your idea. I don't think adding in the extras would be a big change in these plans though.

    I gave the article a read and I see the idea you are mentioning. His version/interpretation is quite different than what I would have initially assumed. Nice little catchy phrase too.
     
  2. Bare Lee

    Bare Lee
    Expand Collapse
    Chapter Presidents
    1. Minnesota
    2. Presidents

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2011
    Messages:
    5,937
    Likes Received:
    6,576
    Yah, I have Pavel's book actually--haven't read it though. Anyway, thanks for the reminder that other vets have endorsed a super high frequency approach as well. I think for me the advantage is breaking down workouts into two essential lifts, and then viewing everything else as secondary or tertiary. It could give me the flexibility I need to make adjustments now that scheduling has become more difficult. I'm starting to come around to the notion that practicing the movements is more important than the actual load. The intensity still has to be there often enough to make progress, but the biggest obstacle to progress, for me, is taking time off because I don't have the time or motivation for a higher intensity workout. As long as I do something, then I'll be primed for those days when I can really go for it. In other words, consistency trumps all.

    So M-W-F Squats and Presses for sure, other lifts optionally done the same day or T-Th-S. Even when the kids are home, they should have the patience to let daddy do two lifts in 20-30 minutes.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  3. Abide

    Abide
    Expand Collapse
    Barefooters
    1. Nederland -...

    Joined:
    May 13, 2010
    Messages:
    3,245
    Likes Received:
    1,046
    I do think you will find it easier to do the standing press, and it will probably progress a little faster too. I think I might do a similar thing and just start repping with 60kgs on the press and slowly work it up to 5 x 5. The microloading is ok after a point but with only doing the press once a week I think I need to push it a bit more to catch it up?
     
  4. Bare Lee

    Bare Lee
    Expand Collapse
    Chapter Presidents
    1. Minnesota
    2. Presidents

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2011
    Messages:
    5,937
    Likes Received:
    6,576
    Yah, I dunno. Adding reps is a form of microloading, right? With current 1RMs (Squat = 300; Press = 150), according to my percentages, a five-rep load (85% of 1RM) would be 128, but since I'm racking from the floor, I'd have to use 25-pound plates as my biggest plate. Wait, no, they have bumper plates, so I guess I could I do less than 135 and still start from a normal deadlift/Olympic height. Hmnn, maybe I'll try that. I noticed yesterday they have a conversion chart on the wall so it would be easy to figure out how to get 128, if I bring my fractional plates.

    It's funny how the bench press seems kind of stupid now. I think the three primary lifts are really the squat, deadlift, and press (+chin-ups). You could even go totally naturalistic and just make them the deadlift, power clean, and clean-press. All stuff you do from the floor with increasing target heights and decreasing loads. But today I'm going to try to get in some benching, along with deadlifts, then rows and pulldowns. Once I re-establish the lifting this week, I'll have to turn my attention to getting the aerobic stuff back up to full speed.

    Feels good to be sore again, btw.
    Yah, I think someone besides Rippetoe said that just below parallel is not only a good way to judge depth at meets, but also happens to be the ideal depth for one's spine and joints. I don't know, but it feels pretty good and natural for me. And now that I'm lifting in front of huge mirrors, I can see I just naturally end up at that depth. My form also looks pretty good coming back up, so I think I have the squat puzzle figured out. I've been pulling down on the bar a bit more, even with submaximal loads and this helps stabilize things and helps me maintain good form coming up, I think. It's still a little awkward unracking the bar from the power racks at the university gym, but I'm getting used to it. The j-hooks are a little too low, and the sleeves just barely clear them on either side, so the movement has to be precise. Still enjoying lifting in the open space there though. So much better than my cramped garage. I think when I do return to lifting in my garage, I'll bring the bar outside into the driveway when it's time to do my presses. The neighbors can gawk if they want.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    #84 Bare Lee, Feb 18, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2016
  5. BroadArrow

    BroadArrow
    Expand Collapse
    Barefooters
    1. Illinois

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2014
    Messages:
    286
    Likes Received:
    332
    i'm still alive, i just haven't been doing much. this is because i decided that i should really try to put away these 15% illnesses once and for all in time for spring. also, i have been trying to do maple syrup which involves a lot of running around checking on trees and boiling inordinate amounts of sap down.
     
    Abide likes this.
  6. Abide

    Abide
    Expand Collapse
    Barefooters
    1. Nederland -...

    Joined:
    May 13, 2010
    Messages:
    3,245
    Likes Received:
    1,046
    Yum fresh maple syrup sounds fantastic. I didn't know they had good trees in Illinois for that?

    By the way what's up with all your calve raises?
     
  7. Abide

    Abide
    Expand Collapse
    Barefooters
    1. Nederland -...

    Joined:
    May 13, 2010
    Messages:
    3,245
    Likes Received:
    1,046
    Yeah I think mirrors can be a good tool, just don't look at them too much and screw up your posture. My J hooks are exactly like you describe and I found its much safer going low than high.

    That tip about pulling the bar helps me too. It seems to keep my upper back tighter so I use more hip drive than the back good morning motion if its not tight. Its a good cue.

    Hey I love the bench press! The press is a great lift, but I feel like the lift is so far below submaximal levels for everything else but the shoulders and makes me think its more suited as an assistance lift like pull ups than a main lift. The bench fits a little better in my opinion with the DL and squat as a main lift. I think that has been evolving in my plan as well, how I have the DL / SQ / BP as the focus lifts. Maybe the press would be more akin to weighted pull ups or heavy rows? Anyway they are still very much a part of my core lifts though. Cleans I am still on the fence about, I am not sure what the additional benefit they would provide over squats and DL's?
     
  8. Bare Lee

    Bare Lee
    Expand Collapse
    Chapter Presidents
    1. Minnesota
    2. Presidents

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2011
    Messages:
    5,937
    Likes Received:
    6,576
    Yah, I dunno, probably just a phase I'm going through. Just feels good to lift something off the floor and over my head. I'm not really doing Cleans, but cleaning to press, so the clean load is always going to be fairly light and it's just one rep. Once I've got it cleaned, I then do my overhead reps without coming back down to the floor. Maybe I'm just enjoying not having to kneel.

    Yah, that's a good cue, and one I'd kinda forgotten about. I remember when I first tried 275 though. I wouldn't have made it back up without furiously pulling down on the bar. So it's probably not necessary for lesser loads, but once I'm up in the 3-2-1 rep range, I'll definitely be keeping it in mind, and maybe I should do it for five and seven reps too? Moving my hands in to between the center unknurled area and the power mark in the knurled area has also helped me keep the upper back tight, and it keeps my forearms vertical (which Rippetoe thinks is important). Like you say, getting rid of any tendency to an initial good morning, leading to a two-part ascent, was sort of the last piece of the puzzle I had to figure out in the squat. Make it truly monophasic.

    I think part of my loss of interest in making progress on the bench is due to working out with a lot of young dudes around. I'm a bit of a contrarian, so it's fun to de-emphasize it, knowing how important it is to the young guys, as it used to be for me. But it's also the fact that, potentially at least, the bench is still my strongest lift, so I can safely ignore it for a while longer yet. And without benching much, my shoulders have never felt better, so I will probably always stick to a 2:1 ratio of press to bench. But there is an element of artificiality in the bench that you don't really find in the other barbell lifts, unless you're trapped under a car.

    I stopped by Anytime Fitness this morning, just looked through the windows because it's unstaffed in the wee hours. Looks like a pretty good set-up and there was no one there at 4:30am, so I'd have the place to myself. I'll stop by this afternoon to see what kind of deals they have. So I'm on the verge of trying the Abide coffee and ball-scratching approach to lifting first thing in the morning. The first time or five I would just do everything light until my body adjusts. It's about a two-mile bike ride away, so that would help warm things up too. With the recent work and family schedule changes, I think it's the only way I'll be able to return to consistent lifting. It's a real pity I can't use my own garage gym at that hour, but the clanging comes right through the floor into the bedroom upstairs.

    Edit: signed up at Anytime fitness, and with my health insurance discount, it's only 20 dollars a month as long as I go in 12 times a month. Really a nice facility and conveniently located. Now I just have to talk myself into lifting first thing in the morning. But I think it's going to be the only way to get consistent again.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    #88 Bare Lee, Feb 22, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2016
  9. Abide

    Abide
    Expand Collapse
    Barefooters
    1. Nederland -...

    Joined:
    May 13, 2010
    Messages:
    3,245
    Likes Received:
    1,046
    Nice I think you will enjoy the early morning thing, you seem to be an early riser so the biggest obstacle is out of the way.Your ride will definitely help get you warmed up, I actually wish I had to do that.

    I used the TBDL again today and I really enjoyed it. Its strange how different of a lift it is from the regular DL, much more of a leg dominant lift than, hip drive. Maybe its similar to the difference between a back and front squat. Anyway I tried a few different head positions and I ended up settling with a packed neck, downward gaze and it felt like it really locked out my back position. I am going to try it out again on the regular DL's to see how it feels.
     
  10. Abide

    Abide
    Expand Collapse
    Barefooters
    1. Nederland -...

    Joined:
    May 13, 2010
    Messages:
    3,245
    Likes Received:
    1,046
    Whoa this cycle ended fast. Lee are you going to post up another post for the next one?

    I am not going to change much in my plan, I should probably put it together in excel so I have a clear picture of the increases over the next cycle. I did kind of like having an open plan for increases, seemed to be beneficial to take advantage of the gains when I could. I think overall my progress needs to slow down a bit though and keep building the base.
     
  11. Bare Lee

    Bare Lee
    Expand Collapse
    Chapter Presidents
    1. Minnesota
    2. Presidents

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2011
    Messages:
    5,937
    Likes Received:
    6,576
    Yah, I think 60-70% is the common range for press to bench press. I've been trying to make it an exact 2/3 or 66%.

    Anyway, congrats on the sweet gainz!

    I finally took the early morning plunge. Felt awful at first, but then got better. Should be in the swing of things by next week, so yes, I'm definitely going to set up the next cycle. I need our logs to keep me honest.

    Like you say, the cycle went by fast, and I went backwards. Almost three months now of inconsistent lifting. Will someone please crack the whip over my head?
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  12. BroadArrow

    BroadArrow
    Expand Collapse
    Barefooters
    1. Illinois

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2014
    Messages:
    286
    Likes Received:
    332
    i agree. a tiny bit of lingering colds/flus/whatevers and a little travel and a new hobby sucked the life out of the second half for me. my plan is to start back up, probably tonight.
     

Share This Page