Concurrent Strength & Endurance Training 2016: Cycle I

Discussion in 'Training Information/Training Regimens' started by Bare Lee, Jan 2, 2016.

  1. Sid

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    Exactly, the numbers don't matter. One just wants to increase resistance over time. I keep track by using the color of my bumpers and microplates. 1 red, 1 yellow, etc.
     
  2. Abide

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    Yeah yeah yeah, I know that. Gotta get the right information so I have a good starting point!

    By the way Sid you were right, pull ups are better than pulldowns. The pull down is very nice for warming up for the pull ups though. It feels like I get better activation from the back and use less biceps because of them. Interesting benefit.
     
  3. Abide

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    Oh nice I forgot about rotational exercises, thanks for the reminder.

    You ever have any concern about those balls breaking off? I should probably research a little about the weight limit.
     
  4. Bare Lee

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    Ha! I like that system. Shunning the numerology of so much training in favor of color-coding. Could one end up chasing colors as hard as numbers though? "C'mon dude, you totally own the red, now let's go get it!"
    It you do rotational, make sure it's the thoracic spine that's rotating and not the lumbar spine. I think.

    "ball-breaker": a demanding woman who destroys men's confidence.

    Should be easy to avoid in a home gym.
     
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  5. Abide

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    Yeah I was thinking these



    But chances are I won't get to them. I am more likely to do the landmine twists to be honest.

    Need to start looking at my next 4 week plan, more of the same with some tweaks? Wednesday I was also thinking about making the upper lifts a high rep workout instead of pushing the weight. And only focus on higher intensity squats.

    Speaking of which, face pulls? Do you do them at all? I keep thinking about these excess lifts for a fun day Friday workout wondering if that should be one?
     
  6. Bare Lee

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    Well, from a naturalistic point of view, it's hard to see when in real life someone would twist like that with their arms extended. Landmine Twists seem to come close to a natural swinging motion, although of course, there are limits to the naturalistic position.

    I stayed up too late watching the playoff games but even though I'm tired today, I can feel that the bug I have is on the retreat, the amoxicillin is doing its job. So time to get back to lifting. I also need to rethink my plan. I guess I will simply try to get up to the loads I had programmed for the first week of this cycle. Maybe some kind of laddered priming today and then see where I'm at on Wednesday. Hopefully, by Friday, I'm back where I need to be. The main thing is avoid getting hurt while I get everything primed again. I've learned that the first one or two workouts back at it need to be at reduced intensity. I think your plan to push the squats for a while seems like a good one. I'm still convinced of the 'squat first' school of thought. That's one reason I'm hopeful I can recover my lifts quickly, because I did manage to maintain my squats OK during this period of sporadic lifting and illness.

    You're the one who first told me about face pulls. A lot of people recommend them, but it's one of the those assistance lifts you have to wonder about. Are Rows, Deadlifts, and Pullups doing the same thing, more or less, but with much greater intensity/muscle recruitment? Is getting a bigger row more profitable? I dunno, but a day devoted to assistance might be a good idea. Programming wise, it also works, because if something comes up, it's easy to nix that workout at the end of the week and shift one of the other ones over.
     
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  7. Sid

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  8. Abide

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    Yeah feeling almost 100% today, glad you are on the mend as well. I'm really tired of feeling sick all the time so hopefully that's the last one.

    Had a good workout today the squats felt solid, I noticed something interesting that as I did more sets I was getting more comfortable getting a little deeper. Initially I started at parallel and that seems to warm up the body well.

    The low pull was also a nice change from doing BB rows. A lot less pressure on the back. Wish I could still raise up that low pulley about 4 inches though.

    45lbs is such and arbitrary number for the big weights. How is your collection working out for you? pun not really intended.
     
  9. Sid

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    Good! I took a break to focus on form with the treadmill. It's going well.
     
  10. Abide

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    Interesting that your standing overhead press was pretty comparable to your kneeling weight earlier this cycle. I would have suspected you would see a bump from standing but I guess you have really mastered the kneeling version.

    That's funny about the schedule likely a university gym would vary from a typical neighborhood gym. Back when I lifted at the university gym in Chicago the mornings and lunch time were packed, but most people went home in the early afternoon as soon as classes were done.
     
  11. Bare Lee

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    I think it's a little too early to tell. The squats went well, but by the time I got to the press, I was already feeling a little weak and hungry, and I hadn't pressed for at least a week, and the press seems like it's the lift that weakens the quickest with time off. It will probably take at least a week of consistent lifting before I'm able to recover everything. I'm going to start with the goal of reaching my beginning-of-the-year loads. So basically, with this sore throat and other stuff that came up, I've lost a month of progress. No biggie, and who knows, maybe in the long run it was good to deload a bit. Still not sure about the 2/3/5/7+ protocol. Might just go back to the 5-7-3 weekly wave, that works just fine. I'll give 2/3/5/7+ a fair shot though. I went in without my little spread sheet and it was kind of nice not to worry about the exact right loads or micro-loading.

    Yah, at the University of Chicago gym it got real crowded between 4-6pm, my preferred lifting times. But doesn't seem to be the case here. I may keep using the university gym, it's a nice change of pace. I don't like their benches though, and the barbell sleeves just barely clear the J-hooks width-wise. The bar I was using was slightly bent too. I did like all the mirrors though, great for checking depth and form. And with my belly, I looked like a real powerlifter!

    Edit: funny, sometimes the coincidence of T-Nation articles appearing about something that I've just begun to focus on is amazing. Yesterday I did standing overhead presses for the first time in many, many years. Then this article is posted in T-Nation's daily reposting section: https://www.t-nation.com/training/get-your-press-up

    Now I'm thinking maybe I'll clean my press from the floor when I use the university gym.

    I forgot to mention how fun it was to glance at other lifters at the university gym. Some half-squats, one guy saying to his buddy that shoulder day was his favorite day, lots of lunges with light dumbbells, etc. It will be hard to keep from dispensing with old guy advice (albeit old guy knowledge that has only been acquired within the last two years or so!). For the moment though, I seem to be the only old guy in there, so everyone will probably want to keep their distance.
     
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  12. Abide

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    Yeah I remember that article from a while back. I tried his advice about cleaning the bar but after a few workouts realized that the clean was adversely affecting the press. I could make more reps at higher weight off the rack I mean. Plus the warmup requirement, ahh bitch, bitch, bitch. Anyway that was my experience, and my takeaway was focus on the lift your are performing, you wouldn't clean a front squat or snatch an overhead squat right?

    Gyms have great comedic value, the funny thing is you can get to know the regulars over time but its still so difficult to understand why the hell they do what they do. In fact they probably look at us and think the same thing.
     
  13. Bare Lee

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    Yah, but perhaps cleaning and then presses, or even push press, would involve more muscle recruitment and therefore greater gains overall. A long time ago, when I was almost completely naive about strength theory, and I didn't have a rack, I would clean to press, then add weight and just clean, then add more weight and deadlift. I might try that again. It would depend on whether my shoulders can take all that cleaning. So a workout could be Squats, then that press-clean-deadlift complex, bench, row, pulldown, with focus on the first two, and bench, row, pulldown becoming secondary. The squat I could continue to do 2/3/5/7+, and everything else straight sets across. I dunno, something to think about. I did like that video in the article with the dude cleaning and pressing twice his body weight. Cleaning and pressing my body weight and squatting twice it would be noble goals. And then, like you say, other gym rats, especially the body-part kats, would probably look at me and wonder what the hell I'm doing. Could be fun . . .

    Speaking of gym rats, did I mention the two non-graduate students I befriended in University of Chicago's general gym (the athletes had their own weight room) did no lower body work? One guy in particular looked really funny, just bird legs with a medium-sized bodybuilder physique up on top. It looked like he could tip over at any time. I wonder if he realized how worthless all that upper body strength would be if he actually tried to do something with it while standing up. Of course, at the time I didn't do squats either, but at least I knew enough to deadlift.
     
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  14. Abide

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    Who knows maybe the dude had massive success in the dating game, like a peacock huh? That was me back in high school, except I had the benefit of football sleds and sprint practice at track to offset all my curls.

    You are right about the muscle recruitment. As you know probably by now I have always been a little against doing cleans, mainly to prevent injuries since the quick lifts have always been problematic for me. So I don't think its bad advice I am just trying to see what the benefit would be to do so? Cleans intuitively seem to me to benefit more of a fast sport like sprints or football. Do you think there is more benefit to be had from them, from the endurance perspective? I have also felt the same way with push presses. However now that we are talking about it maybe doing a 5+ final set of OHP and the pluses are push presses after the presses stall out might be good.

    I remember your old clean/dl combo, but your "Squats, then that press-clean-deadlift complex, bench, row, pulldown" idea is sensory overload for my minimalistic nature! That is a hell of a workout though, maybe once a week on a Monday and then simplify your other two workouts? Otherwise I think it will be fast burning you out.
     
  15. Bare Lee

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    Ha, I like that image, and he was something of a peacock, very attentive to fashion and hair etc. And I think the guy was a natural ectomorph, so his legs were especially skinny and out of proportion to his upper body. It really was comical. He always wore pants of course, but even then it was obvious that he had an endurance runner's legs and a body builder's torso. He was a great guy though, very encouraging and positive, as close as I've ever come to having a training partner.

    Yah, don't know if I would actually follow through on the complex, and I could just do the cleans at the same weight as the press to make it easy, or just do a single clean at the beginning of each OHP set. Also, only the squat, press, and once a week, the deadlift and probably the bench would be at full intensity. The other two days, Monday and Friday I would do RDLs instead of conventional deadlift, probably. So it wouldn't be 6-7 lifts going all-out. I like the idea of focusing on just two lifts most of the time. I could also do the squats 2/3/5/7+, and maybe the presses too, but then everything else would either vary in intensity, like the bench and deadlift, or only be done at moderate intensity, like the rows and pulldowns. I dunno, but I think somewhere in there, there's a pretty good protocol . . .

    I think of cleans mostly as a check in the box of explosive movement. I'm not involved in athletics these days, but just for fitness and anti-aging purposes, something a little explosive is probably a good idea. I might try to get back to box jumps too, if my knees don't mind. Also, I don't think I would view cleans as a performance lift, so I'd be happy do them at submaximal loads, maybe even three reps at 75% 1RM?

    I like your idea of finishing the last set with push presses. That could be a good way to go.
     
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  16. Abide

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    Same here with the focus lifts with one caveat, I have one heavy focus lift a day. It seems to be working pretty well. Even though the other lifts are lighter they still seem to have a good impact. Like next Monday I'll be doing lighter DL's so I will try to push the bench a bit and maybe even the pull ups. Doing 10 extra reps of the TBDL on my off day at 87% of the heavy day really impacts the body in a different way. Wednesday I will go heavy with my presses, I'll see if I can get 5 x 5 @ 60kgs. I'm gonna add the push presses to the last set. I'll probably skip going heavy with the back stuff, I seem to do better with higher volume reps lower weight anyway.

    However one problem is the time commitment is slowly increasing. Between the 5 x 5 upper sets I find myself taking a little more time between sets to warm up for the heavier DL's and squats. But compared to going to a gym the 45-50 minutes 3 times a week I spend lifting really isn't much.

    I think before I start adding any variety in the schedule I should really add in some hill sprints. They might have a more direct benefit for my 100 goal for now.
     
  17. Bare Lee

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    I dunno, my view is that exercise so broadly affects every other facet of life--health, of course, but also mood, concentration, sound sleep, energy levels, appetite, self-esteem, etc.--that an hour a day isn't really that much time. It makes the other 95% or so of the day so much better, and I'm not a very efficient person anyway, so the onus should really be on cutting out wasted time in other areas before I start shorting the exercise time.

    But yeah, lately I've been feeling the need to do a certain amount of intensity, but then not always having the motivation to do it. A whole hour of high intensity fries the middle-aged CNS. So for me, basically, I'm accepting that I got to vary the intensities of the six lifts somehow. It's just a matter of figuring out the best way. The 5-7-3 weekly wave gets to be a little too much with the loads getting up there. And then of course, the heavier lifts involve more warm-up sets, another consideration as you point out. So the simplest for me is just to alternate heavy Squats with heavy Deadlifts, and heavy Presses with heavy Bench Presses. Since I feel like I get more benefit from Squats and Presses, I reason that I should do them heavy twice a week and Deadlift and Bench Press heavy once a week. Then on the lifts' non-heavy days, do them medium to light, just to practice the movement. Rows and Pulldowns seem to fit best last, and at moderate or higher reps, like you say. I like them as finishers/balancers. Anyway, that's been the plan for this cycle, just have to put it into practice!

    Of course, I could just go with stasis and simply maintain. That would cut down on time and some of the need for motivation. But it wouldn't be any fun.
     
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  18. Abide

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    Yeah 45 minutes isn't that long of a time, but once I add everything up then we are talking 2-3 hours a day between lifting, biking/running and yoga which is a bit long I think. Plus coordinating schedules with my wife's training is difficult too.

    Yeah the alternating concept seems to be an easy one to make to offset the higher weight loads. In fact I look forward to my squat workouts now that I really only have to push them every other week. Although I am a little sore from pushing the deads yesterday.

    Well now how to work this weight off? Composition is changing slowly so maybe I will have to wait a little longer for the actual weight piece? Still dealing with very low energy levels almost everyday. Wish losing weight didn't have to mean feeling like molasses most of the time.
     
  19. Abide

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    Hey any ideas how I can raise this pulley up by about 6"? I can't come up with a good way with the single bolt hole and the amount of horizontal force that will be placed on the pulley?

    IMG_20160203_061356_resized.jpg
    IMG_20160203_061419_resized.jpg
     
  20. Bare Lee

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    Yah, if you're doing all that on top of lifting everyday, it's a lot. I was speaking about exercising an hour a day more generally. Like an hour total of whatever combination of stuff you're doing.

    The problem for me when I do things less frequently is just as you mentioned: soreness. One of the reasons I like the high-frequency approach. Cuts down on injuries too, it seems.

    Yah, could be recomposition. The waistline and face, for me, are the best indicators of losing fat, not the scale. I've been cutting back a bit and it's starting to show in the face and the belt is starting to feel looser, but the last few times I've lifted I've felt a little weak, so I dunno. Maybe it is as hard as Rip says it is to lose weight and gain strength at the same time, but I'll keep trying for the rest of this cycle. I would really like to lose at least 30 pounds. Once you start to notice some loss, it's easier to motivate.

    For your low pulley, I would think you could get some 1/8- or 1/4-inch-thick plates (or whatever that translate into metrically) and drill holes for the bolts. Put the plates on either side of the rack base and then bend the tops inwards slightly with a clamp so that you can get the pulley attachment on over them and bolt it on. That's what comes to mind anyway. You'd need steel drill bits and perhaps a way to cut the plates if you can't get the exact right size. A machine shop might be willing to do it for you for cheap, but they usually don't like to monkey with small jobs and there might be some liability issues.
     
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