Chronic Muscle Soreness, anyone have this?

[barefoot.zumba.runner]

I haven't been keeping track of how long this has been going on (months), but it seems like my body is always sore. I thought it might be from over training, but even during my rest week I was sore. Particularly more sore when I exercise. I've been an active person, getting regular moderate to high intensity exercise 3-6days a week for 11years. So it's not like I'm new to exercise and my muscles aren't used to this. Any thoughts?

A bit of medical history...I've got Hashimoto's Disease (autoimmune disease that attacks the thyroid) and Sinus Bradycardia (slowed heart rate, resting is about 54bpm)

 

[BFWendyBird]

 How is the quality of your

How is the quality of your sleep? Failure to spend enough time in deep sleep will leave your body short on human growth hormone which is needed to repair muscle tissue damaged by workouts (the good kind of damage, where rebuilding leads to getting stronger.) If you aren't getting the hormone release, that damage doesn't get repaired and just adds up over time leaving you with sore aching muscles. Often, this is given the diagnosis of Fibromyalgia, but is easily fixed by correcting the sleep problems. When my RA flares up it interferes badly with sleep and I get the same muscle soreness. Generally half a Flexeril each night for a few nights takes care of the problem and gets my sleeping back on track (assuming I've gotten my RA back under control at the same time.)



Granted, I am not a doctor and this is just one possibility, but could be worth looking into.

 

[LavaRunner]

Not a real clue. I have a

Not a real clue. I have a very low resting heartrate. 40-44 BPM too. and somethin called

• You wouldn't by chance be on Statins would you?
• What is your Vitimin D level, are you getting enough?
• You're young I expect based on your picture, but are you taking CoQ10?

Just some initial thoughts.

 

[barefoot.zumba.runner]

Wendy, I feel like I get good

Wendy, I feel like I get good sleep. I don't have any sleep issues. Generally fall asleep easily and stay that way unless woken up by a kid (occasionally) or dh's snoring. I do still feel tired in the morning though and it takes me a bit to wake up so maybe I'm not getting as good of sleep as I think?

Lava, I'm not on Statins. Getting about 10,000IU of vitamin D every 4-5days or so. Not a clue what CoQ10 is?

 

[Norm Deplume]

barefoot.zumba.runner

I do still feel tired in the morning though and it takes me a bit to wake up so maybe I'm not getting as good of sleep as I think?

That's a pretty telltale sign that you're not fully relaxing when you sleep. I was on Trazodone for sleep for a while and it helped the sleep quite a bit. But there are also herbal & other ways to encourage good relaxed sleep, too.

 

[BFWendyBird]

  If you don't feel rested

If you don't feel rested when you wake up in the morning, you are definitely not getting quality sleep.

I didn't think 54 was too low for RHR, is your blood pressure really low too? Mine has come way down since I started running. My resting heart rate used to be in the 70's and is now about 60. BP is like 102/ 50 something or 60 something.

 

[Barefoot Larry]

Hey Zumba, my resting

Hey Zumba, my resting heartrate is in the low 50s. Did you have that heartrate even before you started running? Have you had a sleep study done, do you snore or have apnea. A friend from work was having soreness issues and was finally diagnosed with sleep apnea. As Wendybird indicated, if you don't get into a deep sleep those issues will appear. Sleep apnea microwakes you yet you wouldn't be aware of it.

My friend uses a CPAP machine at night and now gets good quality sleep and soreness has gone away.

 

[Jimmy Hart]

 i'm surprised you guys

i'm surprised you guys jumped straight to rest when she mentioned hashimoto's in that first post. common symptoms of hashimoto's include fatigues, muscle aches, soreness, joint pain, and muscles weakness more so in the lower extremeties than other places although stiffness in the shoulders is also quite common. I would say you need to check your iron levels and see where they are at. low iron is a common problem with hashimoto's and a lack of iron causes weak, sore, and tired muscles.

i'm not a doctor yet but i'd start there before i thought of anything else

 

[BFWendyBird]

  I just assumed since she

I just assumed since she already knows she has Hashimoto's the issues from that had been ruled out. With auto-immune diseases, it is easy to blame everything on your primiary diagnosis and forget that a problem could be from something else.

 

[Jimmy Hart]

 true wendy but given that

true wendy but given that she is not over weight, having not mentioned any issues like a deviated septum, and she said she feels refreshed when she wakes up i left the sleep issue alone. i dont think the heart rate is a problem although it can cause some issues depending on how her heart rate responds during exercise. if the blood flow is not sufficient enough to get oxygen to the muscles during exercise then that can cause some of her issues as well as it just being something like a lack of iron creating problems with the hashimoto's.

one of the things i've learned about medicine both eastern and western is that is about 95-98% of the time it really is the obvious thing. i think that we have somehow gotten to a point where we think it cant be or we want it to be something other than the obvious for some reason. i blame awesome medical dramas like House because they make it look cool to have something crazy and finding out what it is by some genius doctor just seems fun

 

[BFWendyBird]

She said, " I do still feel

She said, " I do still feel tired in the morning though and it takes me a bit to wake up so maybe I'm not getting as good of sleep as I think."

Sleep deprivation can be caused by so many things. I had a good friend that was miserable for two years and diagnosed with Fibromyalgia. She tried every mattress, topper, exercise, diet, you name it. Long story short, it turned out she was developeing an allergy to legumes and while it was not yet effecting her breathing, it was keeping her from getting deep sleep so she had the all over muscle ache and although she felt like she was sleeping all night, she woke tired every morning. Once she eliminated legumes from her diet, she started waking up feeling rested. Eventually she became so allergic that she couldn't have peanutbutter even in the house and had to carry an epi-pen.

 

[Barefoot TJ]

Well then...perhaps Zum

Well then...perhaps Zum should ask a doc to run blood tests on her for all the minerals and vitamins to see if she has a deficiency...and maybe she could start to remove items from her diet to see if they could be causing this problem.

A lack of Vit D can cause extreme muscle fatigue as well. 200 IU per day as recommended is NOT enough, so they are now reporting. We need 2,000 - 6,000 per day. I had extreme muscle fatigue in my calves. I went to a neurologist for Morton's Neuroma--no help for MN, but she ran a bunch of tests and found I was deficient in Vit D at the same time I was having problems with my calves. I began taking 6,000 IU per day (per some research I did), and within two weeks my problems with calf tightness completely disappeared. You can take liquid Vit D, and it will work in your system much quicker.

I've referenced it here and on "that other forum" before, but here it is again. Well worth the read, especially the links I've provided below:

I too drink a ton of milk and spend countless hours outside. Even in winter, I wear short sleeves, since I get hot easy when I run. Just something to think about. Next time you're at the docs, ask for this specific test.

A low level/Vitamin D deficiency can cause extreme muscle weakness that will not resolve on its own. Be sure they ask for a blood test to check your Vit D level, specifically 25(OH)D.

For everyone to consider when dealing with issues of tight calf muscles: This advice is not such a long-shot...read on...

I had also experienced extreme muscle fatigue and tightening in my calves while running. My neurologist (treating for Morton's Neuroma) ran some blood work and found that I also had a Vitamin D deficiency. It was strange since I had been taking 1,000 IU of Vit D per night for the past half year. I did a lot of research to find out what to do about my problem. Apparently, they're finding out that the 400 IU per day the government feels is adequate isn't so, according to one article I read. The article stated that 93% of people who go to the emergency room (for whatever reason) are Vit D deficient. There may just be a hidden epidemic here. I found that doctors prescribe 50,000 IU once per week for those with Vit D deficiency. (I read on some of the Vit D discussion forums that some people experienced head aches, tremors, etc., when taking high doses of Vit D all at once.) So I decided to take 4,000, then 5,000, now 6,000 IU each night. Within 2 -3 weeks I began noticing that the weakness in my calf muscles went completely away. I don’t have that problem anymore. There's a very informative .PDF on Vit D deficiency at: http://www.savvypatients.com/NEJM%20Vitamin%20D%20Review.pdf. Also, check out the many resources at: http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/. You can also get the liquid form of Vitamin D that works a lot quicker.

 

[barefoot.zumba.runner]

Sorry, disappeared for the

Sorry, disappeared for the weekend for a family get together!

I can't believe I didn't even consider that it'd be the Hashi's. I guess I just assumed that since I was on hormone replacement, that my symptoms should be alieviated (I never had muscle soreness leading to my diagnosis, last year, just huge anxiety issues). Once I'm up in the morning and out of bed I feel fine, it's just waking up that is hard. I take Celexa (for anxiety) and my doc prescribed some Traz to take in case I had a hard time falling asleep and I never needed it (fall asleep fine and stay asleep). I don't have apnea nor snore. I wonder if I tense up at night?

Wendy, that is crazy about your friend. How did she come to the conclusion that it was legumes?? RHR isn't very low, just low enough to create a few issues with lightheadedness from time to time. There are times when for a week straight, I'll get lightheaded 70% of the time I stand up throughout a day. My bp is normal I believe, they checked it when I went in for my toe and I think it was 117/60 ?

Jimmy, my heart rate recovers quickly after exercise. I'll look into adding a little bit more iron to my diet, haven't had it tested since my diagnosis a year ago (it was fine then). It, like you said, is probably the obvious, I've just been noticing it more so over the last few mos than before treating the Hashi's.

TJ, I am taking 10,000 IU of vitamin D every 4-5days (it was every other day, though my doc said that every 4-5days should be enough). Haven't had my blood drawn for vitamin d. We actually dont' have insurance right now So I do what I can to get healthy and stay healthy but getting a good dose of regular vitamins, minerals and nutrients. I'm do to have my tsh checked though, so I might as well get it all checked.

Larry, I"m not sure. I think it was 60s before running. I never paid much attention.

 

[BFWendyBird]

  I would try the Traz for

I would try the Traz for about 3 nights to see if it helps. If that doesn't do it then it probably isn't a sleep issue (although when I took Traz I was wide away at 2am because my throat was so dry I couldn't swallow.)

She figured out it was legumes when she went into a full reaction and couldn't breathe, pretty scary. It is shocking how many people develope allergies later in life. She was so depressed because she loved peanut butter and ate it nearly every day.

 

[barefoot.zumba.runner]

I'll give it a shot, thanks

I'll give it a shot, thanks Wendy! That's too bad about your friend, can she do tree nuts? I made sunflower butter the other day, really easy to make nut butters actually. Maybe she can substitute with cashews or pistachios?

 

[BFWendyBird]

I got her started on Tahini

I got her started on Tahini We moved to VA and she moved to HI so I'm not sure what all she has tried.

 

[barefoot.zumba.runner]

yum, I love tahini though

yum, I love tahini though don't use it enough. I need to pick some up, what all can I do with it?

 

[Jimmy Hart]

wendy i apologize for not

wendy i apologize for not realizing the last part zum added in there about waking up tired.

zum fatigue like yours can come a vast number of sources. i got through a phase that sounds like yours every year when summer starts. the first few weeks of summer and the heat drain me and are tough to get through. once i've adapted i'm good and my energy comes back but those few weeks are rough. things like this can come on sudden at any time and make no sense. take wendy's friend who suddenly cant have legumes. the body constantly changes as you age. some of it beneficial, some of it less so. something like hashi's can also change with you and create issues you did not face before. you're also only a year into your diagnosis so your library of experiences to pull from is limited and that stinks. best bet is to stick to the plan you have right now and see how you respond

 

[barefoot.zumba.runner]

Well I took the traz last

Well I took the traz last night and this morning feel exhausted! I can barely keep my eyes open. I went to bed around 9:30 and like clockwork was woken up at 6am by my 3yr old's demands for milk and cartoons. I'll give it a few days to see if it gets better.

thanks for your insight Jimmy, maybe I'm just getting old haha I'll work on iron intake, will have to take a good look at my diet to see where I'm getting it and supplement if need be. I don't eat a ton of red meat, though I'd say every other day or so, beans and lentils probably daily, cereal etc.

 

[BFWendyBird]

  Try cutting the traz in

Try cutting the traz in half next time. I hate drug hangovers, bleh, but if after 3 nights with the traz the muscle soreness goes away, then you can talk to your doc about something better, like Ambien. When I need it I take 1/2 and Ambien and wake up feeling really good.

Sleep may not be the issue, but it is an easy one to rule out quickly and with stuff you have on hand already.



It is frustrating to be doing all the things we are supposed to, eat right, exercise, control our weight, and still have annoying issues.