Cadence Candor: "Look ma, no gears!"

[Bare Lee]

Makes sense. My weight routine isn't really running-specific, more just generally conditioning. If there's carry-over, it's a bonus, but I have been thinking about adding stairs at the end of one of my runs. A great finishing exercise. I hated running stairs during twoadays at football practice, but now that 30 years have passed, I may be able to handle them. Plus with this knee tweak I'm thinking I should probably do something to strengthen my quads a bit more. I think maybe you posted this 6-9 months ago, but if you don't mind, I'd be interested in hearing what your strength training routine is.

 

[Abide]

I've been following a modified Wendler531 plan. Pretty much I will squat, deadlift, press and bench each week. I don't ever go for extra reps though and I'll usually do a dynamic effort set right after or try to max out. Then some assitance work. I also do additional back work once or twice a week. I've tried to cut back to lifting 3 days a week but I like it so usually I do 5 or 6 days a week and run maybe 4. I can send you the plan in excel just PM me your email if you are interested.

 

[NickW]

I'm kind of afraid I'll hurt something with single leg stuff, but I have recently taken up the broad jump, at Nick's recommendation, and got an adjustable plyo box a bit ago. I also like doing bench hops.

I don't think I recommended them, but was stating that I was trying them out at Saypays (Christian, MGBG, whatever you want to call him) suggestion of exercises he does... I have a knee thing too right now so they are off my list of exercises at the moment. I do really want to get back to them though.

 

[barefootandagile]

Speaking of leg workouts.... I am going to be very sore tomorrow. Today was squats, dumbbell walking lunges, deadlift, leg curl and leg ext.

 

[Bare Lee]

Hey B&A, I've been doing leg curls and leg extensions again recently. Is there anything special I should be looking for as a runner when I do them? Like lower weights/higher reps, or something else, or doesn't it really matter?

 

[Bare Lee]

I've been following a modified Wendler531 plan. Pretty much I will squat, deadlift, press and bench each week. I don't ever go for extra reps though and I'll usually do a dynamic effort set right after or try to max out. Then some assitance work. I also do additional back work once or twice a week. I've tried to cut back to lifting 3 days a week but I like it so usually I do 5 or 6 days a week and run maybe 4. I can send you the plan in excel just PM me your email if you are interested.

If you upload the excel file then others could have a look too. It's always cool to exchange ideas. But I just Googled Wendler531 and it looks much more exacting than my regimen. Probably not for me. I just kind of see what weight and how many reps I feel like doing each set. Heavier-weight exercises I pyramid and do 3-5 reps each set. Lighter weight exercises I just warm up a bit at a lower weight and then add some weight for a couple of sets at good effort, 4-8 reps each set. I tend to focus on the heavier weights, but sometimes I give a little extra attention to one of the other exercises if I'm feeling it. I posted the latest incarnation of my routine in the weekly mileage reporting if you're interested . . .

 

[barefootandagile]

Hey B&A, I've been doing leg curls and leg extensions again recently. Is there anything special I should be looking for as a runner when I do them? Like lower weights/higher reps, or something else, or doesn't it really matter?

As you might guess I find the hamstring curl more applicable to running than the extension exercise infact if I were not following a muscle magazine fitness routine with someone I wouldn't be doing extensions For me I prefer single leg curl over double leg and I generally work toward increasing my strength while staying in the 10-15 reps range. If I really want to get strong I go both legs and do sets/reps of 8-6-4 increasing weight as the reps drop. Whether or not I go heavy depends on my consistenci of weeks in row of lifting.

 

[Abide]

If you upload the excel file then others could have a look too. It's always cool to exchange ideas. But I just Googled Wendler531 and it looks much more exacting than regimen. Probably not for me. I just kind of see what weight and how many reps I feel like doing each set. Heavier-weight exercises I pyramid and do 3-5 reps each set. Lighter weight exercises I just warm up a bit at a lower weight and then add some weight for a couple of sets at good effort, 4-8 reps each set. I tend to focus on the heavier weights, but sometimes I give a little extra attention to one of the other exercises if I'm feeling it. I posted the latest incarnation of my routine in the weekly mileage reporting if you're interested . . .

Yep it's pretty much the same thing as you are doing. How do you upload an excel file? Nevermind there it is...

 

[PKFFW]

Sounds like you are experiencing a quality of cadence issue. If you run at very slow pace with 180+ cadence what other elements about your form change? My experience and many others have felt cadence can be both high and efficient at slow paces. It is possible you could find that experience with time.

Honestly I don't know what other parts of my form may be changing as my pace slows. I admit I'm not a good enough runner and haven't been back into it long enough to be that in tune with everything. I continue to work on all aspects of my form though and hopefully with time and practice I will experience what you talk about.

As for 180+ cadence though, I'm not sure I will ever get there or even have any desire to. I understand the reasoning about it being more efficient, it just seems to me that whatever greater efficiency of muscle I get is off set by the greater expenditure of cardio effort if that makes any sense. If I run at a 170 cadence I can go and go and go and I feel light and springy doing it. If I try to up that to 180 I need a break after about 2km regardless of my pace. Obviously I am doing something different at 180 cadence to account for this drastic reduction in endurance. A mere 10 spm increase shouldn't cause that much of a difference. However since I feel good running at 170 I'm not too worried about that particular issue right now.

 

[Abide]

And as for the exacting regimen the main lifts are always the same and always increasing, until you hit a plataeu then you back off and start building again. Everything after that is up to you, typically I'll change all of my assistance work every 3 weeks or I'll drop some stuff and do more sled work. I like it because it is simple and I don't like to think about anything at 5am, other than coffee and scratching my balls.

 

[barefootandagile]

Honestly I don't know what other parts of my form may be changing as my pace slows. I admit I'm not a good enough runner and haven't been back into it long enough to be that in tune with everything. I continue to work on all aspects of my form though and hopefully with time and practice I will experience what you talk about.

As for 180+ cadence though, I'm not sure I will ever get there or even have any desire to. I understand the reasoning about it being more efficient, it just seems to me that whatever greater efficiency of muscle I get is off set by the greater expenditure of cardio effort if that makes any sense. If I run at a 170 cadence I can go and go and go and I feel light and springy doing it. If I try to up that to 180 I need a break after about 2km regardless of my pace. Obviously I am doing something different at 180 cadence to account for this drastic reduction in endurance. A mere 10 spm increase shouldn't cause that much of a difference. However since I feel good running at 170 I'm not too worried about that particular issue right now.

If you do become more interested just know that there are strategies out there to help you accomplish it.

 

[Last Place Jason]

I avoid single-leg stuff because I'm too weak.

I do find a combination of regular hill repeats, sustained climbs, and a combination of walking lunges, air squats, and burpees/frog jumps does wonders for both speed and climbing ability. If I had access to weights, I'd add dead lifts and weighted squats.

 

[Bare Lee]

And as for the exacting regimen the main lifts are always the same and always increasing, until you hit a plataeu then you back off and start building again. Everything after that is up to you, typically I'll change all of my assistance work every 3 weeks or I'll drop some stuff and do more sled work. I like it because it is simple and I don't like to think about anything at 5am, other than coffee and scratching my balls.

Yah, I hear you about not wanting to think about it too much. That's why I drew up a list so that I can just look at the wall to see what's next, although I did put some time into thinking about the logic of the ordering before printing it out. After a while, after the new routine has been tweaked some more, it will become internalized and the order will become second nature.

 

[Bare Lee]

New article on stride length/frequency:
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/06/getting-into-your-exercise-groove/

 

[NickW]

Interesting Lee, interesting.