Another problem with winter running

[Tristan]

So I went out for a short jog today, the sky was clear and the sun was bright. Road surface temp was back up to 41º yay! I've handled down to that temp before bf so figured I'd try this one bf. One thing I noticed was there was an unusually high amount of small bits of gravel on the road. There was always some right close the the edge since its loose stone for a few inches on each side of the road, but I was encountering single bits every few steps. Now my feet may have started to loose some of there toughness since I havent been bf much the last 2-3 weeks (actually maybe only once or twice) but hitting one of these semi sharp pieces on otherwise flat pavement is very ouchy! I had to run very slow and cautiously and no matter how hard I tried I could not really spot any of them since the texture of the pavement is very course and gravel-looking already. Its old pavement that basically looks like chip'n'seal. I had to turn back after not to far at all and only got maybe half mile total.

I was thinking maybe the increase in stones was from folks driveways and the side of roads, and was on the road now since we have had snow the stones tend to stick to the tires more and get drug out and spewn about the road. Thats just a theory, but I have noticed this in my garage. In the summer when I pull my truck in I get just a little gravel into the garage as well. In the winter when there is snow on the driveway I end up tracking in a small bucket full almost every day.

So I am thinking even on these unusually warm days I'm still not going to be able to go bf. IDK, maybe if I try the bucket method, and really toughen up my feet.

 

[JosephTree]

Bucket ho!

Bucket ho!

 

[scedastic]

Yep. I've encountered the

Yep. I've encountered the itty bitty gravel everywhere issue as well, on top of the already rough chip seal. Painful, and it slows me down until I'm barely moving forward. No fun.

Paved, well maintained trails are the nicest, eh? None around here either.

 

[Barefoot Gentile]

Run those same streets in the

Run those same streets in the dark, when you can't see what you are stepping on you will relax more. During the day you see everything and will tense up more. In time and more conditioning those stones will be easy to take on.

 

[Barefoot TJ]

I found that the more I ran

I found that the more I ran across the uncomfortable stuff, the less uncomfortable that stuff became. Just keep at it. It gets easier.

 

[rickwhitelaw]

Noticed the same thing on the

Noticed the same thing on the roads I ran on this week. Lots of sand and rocks from the road department, scuffed pavement from the snowplows, and the freeze/thaw cycle has popped rocks up from the chip and seal. Very rough conditions, but I am going to keep with it. The first mile is hard and then it seem to get easier for a while and then the feet can't handle it and on go the shoes. Relaxing and tiny steps help. I will have to try the night running tip, but it gets cold fast when the sun sets.

 

[Tristan]

scedastic wroteaved, well

Paved, well maintained trails are the nicest, eh? None around here either.

Well thats what I was thinking, the paved trails should still be gravel free... but yeah, its a long drive into the city to the metro parks. I do sometimes go there (well at least in the summer), in conjuction with going to town for something else, but now that the weather is cold its unlikely the few unseasonably warm days will jive with days I have the ability to drive to the trails. The park I often go is about 45 minutes away, I can't really think of any much closer, well wait a sec you just made me remember they are paving a trail that used to be a railroad thats only like 10 minutes away. I havent been through that little town in a while, I'll have to check if the trail has re opened yet!

Thanks everyone else too, I'll have to try the buckets. It doesnt sound fun though

 

[migangelo]

i beiieve when temps are

i beiieve when temps are below 40F the body perceives cold as pain. any bits you step on will be painful because of this. give it time and warm up first and it will feel like a massage. if it doesn't, carry some shoes and put them on.

 

[NickW]

I don't usually have to much

I don't usually have to much of a problem runing on chunks of gravel on pavement. I'm mostly a road runner and the first and last mile of my runs tend to have a lot of debris, gumballs, twigs, branches, and gravel on it. Most of the time I don't mind stepping on any of that. I have found that while I can run on this stuff on pavement, I cannot run on gravel on a trail very well, ask Mike. He laughed at how much of a wuss I was. I don't know how some of you all do it, although my feet were really cold at first and then on the return trip I did a little better, but not much.

 

[PatrickGSR94]

We rarely get snow around

We rarely get snow around here so I'm not sure how that will affect it, but in the areas I walk and run near my office, there are tons of huge, old trees everywhere. If I try to go on the sidewalk, all that debris from the tress is all over the place. However if I go on the paved street, it's mostly debris-free, as I guess the passing cars will blow the debris off to the side and into the gutters.

 

[DB]

Several months ago there was

Several months ago there was a thread about not looking down when you run. Anticipating the rough surface seems to make it feel worse. When I started not looking down (or really just looking far ahead , such as 30 or 40 yards ahead), it made the rough surfaces more tolerable. This is sort of like Barefoot Gentile's recommendation to run at night. And I've also found that with more experience, the roughness gets more tolerable.

 

[BFwillie_g]

DB wrote: When I started not

When I started not looking down (or really just looking far ahead , such as 30 or 40 yards ahead), it made the rough surfaces more tolerable. This is sort of like Barefoot Gentile's recommendation to run at night. And I've also found that with more experience, the roughness gets more tolerable.

+1

I like the idea behind that!

Larger stones and straight-up gravel roads (and roots, pine cones, thorns, etc) are a real problem but the little ouchie-oochie stuff that appears on the roads in winter is really not as damaging as it seems/feels and becomes less and less annoying over time. Now, I actually look for things like that to run over, to break up the 'monotony' of smooth pavement. Not that this stuff ever really gets montonous.

 

[NickW]

BFwillie_g wroteB

When I started not looking down (or really just looking far ahead , such as 30 or 40 yards ahead), it made the rough surfaces more tolerable. This is sort of like Barefoot Gentile's recommendation to run at night. And I've also found that with more experience, the roughness gets more tolerable.

+1

I like the idea behind that!

Larger stones and straight-up gravel roads (and roots, pine cones, thorns, etc) are a real problem but the little ouchie-oochie stuff that appears on the roads in winter is really not as damaging as it seems/feels and becomes less and less annoying over time. Now, I actually look for things like that to run over, to break up the 'monotony' of smooth pavement. Not that this stuff ever really gets montonous.

+2

I really don't look down in front of me at all unless I'm on a trail that Mike takes me on that has a ton of rocks. Normally I'm a road runner though so my biggest worries are fallen branches, pinecones, gumballs, and the occaisional rock and I find if I watch for that stuff it just hurts, but if I look only for big things ahead of me the little stuff doesn't even phase me.

 

[migangelo]

rocks? that was pea gravel

rocks? that was pea gravel for massaging. jeez.

 

[palouserider]

So I have a question for all

So I have a question for all you purists? Once you know you have good form, why don't you just put on some shoes? Is it more a matter of principal or do you really think you lose your conditioning that quickly? I would like to know because I was hoping to do some occasional barefoot running once the weather warms up here.

Also, if you don't look it may help you relax more, but what about stepping on dangerous stuff and getting puncture wounds? Are you all up to date on your tetanus shots and have antibiotics ready to use?

Maybe I'm just a coward.

 

[Barefoot TJ]

Well, I can't wear anything

Well, I can't wear anything on my feet, so I guess that makes me a purist. I am a purist first by force then by choice. Are my ideals purist only? No. I sympathize with the mincrowd and understand their plight. But for me, whenever I put something on my feet, for those minutes it's tolerable, I loose all form. I run heavier. I heel strike. It's not a pretty sight. Some people can do just fine going back and forth between bare feet and shoes, but I cannot. In order to run my best, I have to run barefoot.

I've been to foot hell and back due to the wrong types of shoes. I'm not worried about stepping on something.

 

[BFwillie_g]

PR - the not looking thing

PR - the not looking thing doesn't mean run blind. You look out ahead of you, a good distance, and take in all the info you need. I always unconsciously look for dangers in my path, and am far more aware of my surroundings than I ever was in shoed. Also, WHY should anyone wear shoes when they're not needed? I really don't get your point there, sorry.

 

[DB]

Like TJ, I'm not a purist in

Like TJ, I'm not a purist in thought, but for running, I run exclusively barefoot. As I had injuries (peroneal tendonitis, plantar fascitis) when running in minimal shoes and repeated injuries in traditional shoes in the decades before the switch, I was forced, in a way, to run barefoot. If I hadn't been injured in minimal shoes, I doubt I would have continued to run much barefoot.

Unlike TJ, when I run in minimal shoes, my form does not noticeably go bad. But it must go bad enough, subtly, because I did suffer fairly serious injuries when running in them. The decreased feedback from minimal shoes must cause me to do something wrong and increase stress on my feet and legs. So I have become paranoid about running in any type of footwear -- I just won't risk injury again. The fact that at least some runners can appear to have good form while running in minimal shoes yet still experience a high rate of injury seems to me to be one of the "hidden" dangers of minimal shoes.

Of course, running barefoot has many other advantages apart from injury prevention (perhaps the biggest -- it's fun). And I do wear minimal shoes in most social and work settings, and haven't suffered any problems as a result.

I am current on my tetanus vaccination. Early on I had several episodes of embedded rocks and glass, but haven't had anything like that in many months. As others have described, it seems as if our plantar skin gets thicker and tougher with more barefoot experience. With more experience, especially on rougher surfaces, we also probably learn to run more lightly. So the risk of getting hurt by sharp stuff probably decreases over time. And in my opinion, puncture wounds are nothing compared to an injury that would prevent me from running.

 

[JosephTree]

My plan this morning was to

My plan this morning was to run a big loop in Valley Forge Park, near Philly. Air temp was ~38F. The first 4 miles BF on lovely high bidder kinda asphalt. The last 2.5 miles in VFFs on woods trail. Great plan. I didn't know about the 500 yards of pavement they'd pulled up and temporarily covered with 1 to 2" crushed stone. So I skipped onto the grass adjacent. Turned out not to be grass, just mown weeds with 2" high pungi stick weed stems. Yikes! The middle ground was clear dirt, which wasn't what it looked like either. It was 1/2" of mud over frozen dirt which squished up and then stuck between my toes. By the time I was right miserable with the situation I was back to clear pavement and wishing I'd know what I was getting into and had sat down to put on my Biks. Oh, well. What doesn't kill me makes me colder. (Or something like that.)

I float the question out to the assembled multitude and roughly following in the theme of the tread: Can anybody run BF on crushed stone, sharp stubble and 33F mud and LIKE it?

 

[migangelo]

PR, i will wear shoes as

PR, i will wear shoes as needed but much prefer bf. it's just so much more fun. i pay more attention to form when in shoes but can pay less attention to obstacles.



JT, masochist? maybe.