A broken nail doesn't constitute a running injury

I'm going to play devil's advocate. I don't think people should be putting an overly positive spin on their running at all. Beginners will try barefoot, hurt themselves and pull up sore, and then wonder why they just can't do it completely free of injury and soreness like all of the blissful, indestructible superheroes on the BFR forum. That doesn't help anybody.

I think the debate about injury rates for barefooters and shod runners can lead to a defensive mindset in the community and a tendency to try to market barefoot running as injury-free. A little bit of time on this forum has shown me that there is a reasonable percentage of runners who are injured or struggling at any given time, and that's not something that should be swept under the carpet in the name of marketing.
 
This whole thread is being twisted from its original intent, selective reading is taking over, i know because I've been guilty of it in the past.
I've tried to think things though and express what was on my mind, not because i was bored and had nothing better to say, but because I was started to be effected by all the injury posts in every area of this forum.
Mileage reporting should be about mileage reporting not injury reporting, there is a whole other forum set up with Docs waiting to help for that.
Nobody is a superhero or claims to be one, that is just a predictable, lazy retort that doesn't help anyone either.
All I'm saying is that we have a degree of responsibility for what we post because our words are the food of the community, keep feeding it injury and that's what you'll get out because it becomes our adopted, not natural, mindset of an evolutionary adapted runner.
For some reason no one likes it if you want to promote positive thinking, strength and determination. Some of us believe that a few knocks and dents in the paintwork adds character, that you can be more than the sum of your parts if you work at it and have the passion and stomach for it. But oh no, lets stay wrapped up in our shortcomings, wallow in our weaknesses, look no further than the nose on the end of our face because that's what people are really interested in right?
If you had to run ten miles a day to get food and water, you would find a way of doing it, no matter how tough things become and I think somewhere between the shoe companies and the Nanny State we have lost some of that strength of purpose.
 
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What about when people have something very minor, but want to use it as a learning tool & need help to interpret it? Today I stopped short due to nothing more than a twinge, I could have gone on, but just had a suspicion it might be best not to push it, so it didn't even make it as far as being an injury. Now I suspect this is a form issue as I was running minimalist for only the second time & at a faster pace than usual, I shall mull it over for a while but then I may well post to ask other people's thoughts.
(On the plus side, my nail polish suffered no damage)
 
Mileage reporting should be about mileage reporting not injury reporting, there is a whole other forum set up with Docs waiting to help for that.
................................
But oh no, lets stay wrapped up in our shortcomings, wallow in our weaknesses, look no further than the nose on the end of our face because that's what people are really interested in right?
If you had to run ten miles a day to get food and water, you would find a way of doing it, no matter how tough things become and I think somewhere between the shoe companies and the Nanny State we have lost some of that strength of purpose.

I agree with you in theory, I guess. But as someone who posts on the mileage forum, and enjoys reading it, I don't see a lot of whining, in my opinion.
LOTS of off topic conversation, but it's kind of fun, and takes away from the numbers only aspect. I don't think I'd bother to post if we were only allowed to post number of miles.
Turns it all into a getting to know you chit chat.
To me, it makes the forum less intimidating than if we just wrote up numbers.
People will mention what hurts, sure, but more as a diary note. People also mention what felt good, what they enjoyed most about their runs, what they encountered on their runs, what delicious meal they ate the night before, what delicious meal they wish they had eaten the night before. And yes, they will post their non running because of injury, and because of sickness, or because of partying and going on vacation.
To me, it gives a full picture of what it's like to be a recreational runner, period,and it gives me a window into the world of diversity of those who get enjoyment out of running. It motivates me, and when people post about their aches and pains, it does encourage me to know that not all my pains are significant, and that other people are human too. I find it motivational, and know that I will get encouragement no matter what mileage I post. That works for me and certainly feels positive.

So I guess I'm wondering about your complaint about too much complaining? Could you get more specific? Because I don't see that much of it on this forum, but maybe I've got blinders on.
 
Replying to the first rant, I guess I, like Sced, am unaware of major complaining about minor niggles on this forum.

Now here's some selective reading responses, addressed to no-one in particular:

Totally agree with Larry, Scedastic, ChasingShadows, and Laura. If you reduce the mileage reporting to numbers, I don't think you'd have a whole lot of participation. I enjoy hearing what everyone is doing, how running fits into their other exercise routines, and life in general. I run alone, and do my strength-training in my garage so I wouldn't have any gym-rat camaraderie without the mileage forum.

If beginners are put off by other people's accomplishments, well, that's just too bad. There's always someone better than you, and if you can't deal with that then you've got much more fundamental work to do than learn how to run barefoot. I, for one, have never detected more than perhaps the slightest competitiveness on the mileage forum, and beginners are always made to feel welcome. Everyone pretty much applauds each other's progress, sympathizes with their set-backs, and gains needed encouragement when things get a little tough or frustrating. Plus I've learned a lot about running in general, hearing about all the diverse approaches expressed on the forum--every day runners, high mileage runners, run-commuters, triathlete training, trail running, and so on. I try some stuff I wouldn't have known about otherwise, and then see what works best for me. There are occasionally some interesting debates, and they tend to be very civil.

As for injuries, I think it's vitally important that we share our experiences so that we can all benefit from collective wisdom. It was enormously helpful to read an old ITBS thread that was linked for me when I reported my ITB strain. I was able to understand the nature of the thing and then formulate a plan for overcoming it. I'm glad I didn't treat it like a minor niggle, which is what I thought it was initially, because trying to push through ITB strain seems to be the best recipe for making it a chronic, full-on ITB syndrome, as I've learned from others here. And as someone who was held back needlessly by niggling TOFP for more than a year, I feel a certain obligation to tell folks what worked for me. It seems like a lot of doctors are wrongly diagnosing BFR injuries and this is one of the few places where people can get good, alternative information. The Ask the Doc forum is good, but it's also nice to get more varied and detail reports.

As for going off on tangents, I know I'm guilty of using the mileage forum as a proxy blog, but you know, if you don't like it, please feel free to skim or skip. This isn't assigned reading, so no need for resigned ranting. If a majority expressed a desire to keep the mileage reporting more tightly focused, I would be happy to comply, but I think it's actually just the opposite. The more gabby the forum has become, the more people are participating. I suppose we could post a spreadsheet similar to the one we have for the Winter Challenge, for those that want to skip to the chase. That would be good for strict "just the facts ma'am" mileage reporting: Today it was really cold and I had to stop several times to loosen my new minshoes' laces on my way to running 12 miles, which I know sounds like a lot but believe me it took a long time to work up to it.

As for scaring off potential barefooters, I think honesty is the best policy. I think most of the injuries in any case are more typical runner's injuries, but the bare-curious deserve to know what they're getting into as far as TOFP, tight calves, temp and terrain challenges and most importantly, what actually existing barefoot runners have found as solutions. There continues to be a great deal of misperception about BFR, so I think a site that presents every facet of the experience is to be lauded.
 
All i wanted to do was to inspire folk to see that it's not all about injury, to maybe see some negatives as positives and be proud of achievements instead of belittling them with stories of sore calves.
I wasn't thinking about specific people when I posted this, I wasn't being personal! my initial intentions were honorable.
I mentioned something that I'm having problems dealing with in my own dumb ass way, I feel hurt that you folks thought I was being personal.
I'm sorry now that I posted anything and apologize if I offended anyone.
 
Can someone just tell me why the barefoot and minimalist forums are together? Shouldn't they be separated? ;)
 
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All i wanted to do was to inspire folk to see that it's not all about injury, to maybe see some negatives as positives and be proud of achievements instead of belittling them with stories of sore calves.
I wasn't thinking about specific people when I posted this, I wasn't being personal! my initial intentions were honorable.
I mentioned something that I'm having problems dealing with in my own dumb ass way, I feel hurt that you folks thought I was being personal.
I'm sorry now that I posted anything and apologize if I offended anyone.
Ske, personally, I wasn't taking anything personal; it's not in my nature to care what others think. My first sentence was a reply to your original post. Everything that followed that sentence was me reacting to everything else that followed that first post (somewhat ironically participating in a further hijack of the original I guess). I knew I was risking being taken the wrong way, but my sense of you is that you have a good, relaxed sense of humor, so I allowed myself to type away without editing or qualifying.

I think your overall intent was good, but I guess I just don't see the negativity as you do. It's all good. And I've always been impressed by the positive vibes everyone sends out for races, recoveries, milestones, etc.
 
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Nobody is a superhero or claims to be one, that is just a predictable, lazy retort that doesn't help anyone either.

Not at all, I put a lot of thought into that retort. He's my straw man, and I'll use him however I wish. :p

Seriously though, if all comments were positive and nobody mentioned their niggles for fear of bumming people out, isn't that exactly what visitors would think? Warts and all is better from my point of view, and I think that also includes plenty of stories of positive thinking, strength and determination from what I've seen on this forum so far. It's helpful to know there are people on the forum struggling with niggles and still running. There's a really positive story in that if you really think about it.

For some reason no one likes it if you want to promote positive thinking, strength and determination. Some of us believe that a few knocks and dents in the paintwork adds character, that you can be more than the sum of your parts if you work at it and have the passion and stomach for it. But oh no, lets stay wrapped up in our shortcomings, wallow in our weaknesses, look no further than the nose on the end of our face because that's what people are really interested in right?

Speaking of lazy retorts. :) I'm actually with you on that one - I just don't think there's any reason to gloss over the knocks and dents, so to speak.

Not trying to pick a fight, just offering an alternative view.
 
Yeh, I get it I can see the troops being rallied and the pitch forks being sharpened as I type ;) Stick me in the stocks and throw tomatoes at me, I'm really good at gurning :)
And Lee it's all good, seriously I was thinking about you when I talked about working through injury and sharing experiences, having a plan an acting on it.
 
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Yeh, I get it I can see the troops being rallied and the pitch forks being sharpened as I type ;).

Oh pooh pooh. We are only sticking a fork into you to see if you are done; we lost our meat thermometers.

On a more serious note :cool: when I worked as a server in a fine dining restaurant, one of my coworkers needed to be sent home early because she broke a nail and had to get to the manicurist before they closed. Talk about emergencies!!!!
 
Yeh, I get it I can see the troops being rallied and the pitch forks being sharpened as I type ;) Stick me in the stocks and throw tomatoes at me, I'm really good at gurning :)
It's in the nature of these forums. First, we write something hurriedly when we should be doing something else. Then folks read uncharitably and respond reactively. The original intent gets lost. Then we write several more comments trying to clarify our intent. With a little luck, mutual understanding is reached and a good communal vibe is restored, now at a higher level after passing through the ritualized disagreement.
 
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It's in the nature of these forums. First, we write something hurriedly when we should be doing something else. Then folks read uncharitably and respond reactively. The original intent gets lost. Then we write several more comments trying to clarify our intent. With a little luck, mutual understanding is reached and a good communal vibe is restored, now at a high level after passing through the ritualized disagreement.

I think its called being human, we're all just trying to find our place in the world and sometimes that means saying what's on your mind, sitting on a roller coaster and clinching your butt cheeks for a while until the ride finishes. Then you start queuing up for the next one if you've got enough change left for the ticket :)
If man never broke into a bees nest for fear of being stung, how would he ever know that there was sweet honey inside.
 
I never took anything personal. I just like the open exchange of thoughts and ideas on both sides. Besides, who could ever fault that cute doggie in your avatar? Not me!
 

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