1:59, The Sub-Two-Hour Marathon Is Within Reach

Discussion in 'Training Information/Training Regimens' started by Barefoot TJ, Aug 23, 2014.

  1. kozz

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    How about "2:02?"
     
  2. Bare Lee

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    Only meant to enter in my quip, based on the new, preposterous and presumptuous claims. Then got drawn into the thread and rehearsing the older arguments. My bad.

    I'm skeptical for the reasons stated above. Basically, I did something like aerobic base-building the whole two years I as cycling, except for the mountain passes. You don't need a Garmin or HR monitor. All you do is keep within a tolerable 'feel' for your heart rate and breathing and you can make it through the day. If you're going too fast, you'll wear yourself out and have to stop. As time passes, if you use your gears properly and keep a steady cadence, you get faster and go farther. I've seen the same thing happen with my running last year.

    I know he incorporates other, faster forms of running. What I question is the need for a base-building period when all other kinds of activity are forbidden. That sort of Lydiard-type approach seems to be outdated. The trend among the people actually winning endurance events is to incorporate more threshold running at all times, as far as I understand.

    I haven't read this book, but I have skimmed his big book, I'm aware of his basic arguments, and also aware that no-one else seems to endorse that model of physiology. What I've seen others say is that anaerobic activity can't interfere with aerobic training, but the converse may be true. I don't have the references handy, sorry.

    The other trainers do cross reference each other. What they do is modify the basic LSD-TEMPO-HILLS/INTERAL model, some for individual runners, some as a sort of general plan. You should look into it if you're interested in this sort of thing, and not commit to the first thing you read, especially given your injuries and oft-stated frustrations. Personally, I think I know all I need to know about running at this point, given my humble goals. All I really need is to be more consistent and run hills or fartleks from time to time.
     
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  3. paulbeales

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    I'm starting to appreciate that I'm actually lucky to have hills all around me :)
     
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  4. migangelo

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    I do read and have tried other things. Too much training, going fast have given me these huge imbalances. Working those out now.

    Hijack alert.

    I went and shadowed this posture therapist i met. Egoscue. He gave me a book to do some of the base exercises myself. They're helping and i do recommend everyone check it out themselves.
     

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  5. Barefoot Dama

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    Alright! you're almost there, keep at it! Congrats!
     

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  6. Bare Lee

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    Continuing hijack: have you tried (barbell) back squats and deadlifts? I've been amazed at how, after years of neglect, these big lifts have helped me. My posture's pretty good, and I don't even have to stretch or massage much post-run. Developing basic strength seems to bullet-proof us when doing other activities. I'm a true believer now.
     
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  7. migangelo

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    I have. They magnified my imbalances so i stopped. I feel very soon i will be well balanced. Physically at least. The therapist who i shadowed has the best posture of anyone i've ever seen. Once balanced and making progress, more progress with my aerobic system i will again lift weights. I like doing compound exercises and apparently many people tell me deadlifts and squats are all you need.

    Back on topic.

    I don't remember who said it earlier but they questioned Maff's physiology. It's solid. It's exactly what i'm learning in school. I have noticed the information contradict itself a few times. It makes me wonder how docs and trainers can recommend high carb diets when the bodies preferred fuel is fat. They can't tell me i'm learning different science than them. Well, of course they can but they'd be lying. ;)
     

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  8. Barefoot TJ

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    Avoid processed carbs. Eat healthy carbs in moderation for healthy brain function.
     
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  9. Bare Lee

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    Depending on one's goals, I think that could be true. Some would even say just deep back squats are enough. Over the last few months I've laid off the bench press and have been building up my deadlifts and squats. Now, testing my bench press, I've improved by 20 pounds! These days I begin every workout with either deadlifts or squats.

    This guy might be of interest to you: http://www.rdlfitness.com/
    He's ultra minimalist, too much so for me, but I like his logic. It's helped me think through my st routine. Let me know if it jibes with what you're learning in your studies.
     
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  10. skedaddle

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    I think for pro marathon runners fat as fuel would be too slow considering the pace they run. I'm sure it's been tested a million times.
    For the rest of us plodders burning fat would be a viable choice, requires more oxygen but in the long term better performance.
     
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  11. Bare Lee

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    I think that is exactly right. The reason the pros train at threshold and do intervals or hills is to either accelerate the rate of their aerobic development, and/or to push beyond what a purely aerobic training protocol would achieve. For us plodders, neither one is necessary if the goal is just general fitness and enjoyment. Just running aerobically, over time, will lead to improvement, up to a certain point. Similarly, just lifting weights, doing the basic exercises, will get you to intermediate level after a few years, no matter what sort of rep/set scheme you use. It's only after you achieve that level that you need to think a bit more about training protocols, if you wish to continue to advance.
     
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  12. Sid

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  13. Barefoot TJ

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    I like that when Sid has something to say, he just posts a link. Ha!
     
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  14. Sid

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  15. Sid

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  16. Sid

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  17. migangelo

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    Sid and Lee,
    Both some good articles. I read rdl fitness list of tips. I agree with most. I don't know enough about tabata to comment beyond i believe they only tested people for 6 weeks. Pretty standard for lab tests. Also around the point where training levels off from anaerobic gains. I'll learn more later, for now i'll stick with Maffetone.

    Fat gives more energy when used primarily as fuel. Slowing down to aerobic efforts builds more mitochondria, your cells powerhouse, giving you more power. Maffetone defines endurance as the ability to do more work with less effort. It takes time. Everything does. Nothing happens overnight. Give it a go.

    I know it's hard to swallow and difficult to slow down. You seriously should give it a try. First time i read through i did it even though i didn't fully get it and even doubted it. 2nd time i understood more. 3rd time even more. Now that i'm learning phys, which i have to go and prep for finals in two weeks, it makes even more sense.

    Sometimes you have to just do even before you trust or believe. Action, not thinking is what gets results. I need to go study now so you guys enjoy. I may not be back for a couple weeks.
     

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  18. migangelo

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    Thansk Sid. Go and post 3 links while i write my post. That 1st one doesn't work. Ethiopan study was interesting. Funny how they confused the lab rats with the h2o intake. I bet nose breathing helps with that. The 2nd link, hmm, kind of felt like they were just following old topics of carbing up. I didn't have the time or patience to read through it. Sorry.
     

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  19. Sid

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    Then, don't bother reading the first link either, doc. ;)
    (First link fixed.)
     
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  20. Sid

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    Mike, how about posting some materials or references from school? I'd be glad to read through them! ;)
     

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