I'm ruined ...

BFwillie_g

Barefooters
May 17, 2010
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Kulmbach, Germany
I'm ruined for shoes, can't run in them at all anymore. Not in my water shoes, not in my huaraches and not in my "Nimble Toes" (brand-name, somewhat beefy, minimal shoes). No matter what I have on my feet now, I get knee pain on the right side, probably what the ITB sufferers are feeling. It kicks in pretty quickly, and is just a rotten feeling.

But barefoot, it seems, I can truly go all day, feeling good, no pain anywhere.

I know, this sounds almost like a positive statement to some of you - but, I don't want to run only on terrain that I can do barefoot. Not being able to wear shoes means that a LOT of forest tracks here are o-w-t, out, because they're strewn with gravel and larger stones (for the vehicles that drive in the woods) and really impossible to do barefoot. I truly doubt even KenBob would want run BF on these tracks for very long.

And, some of the coolest races in the area are on precisely that kind of terrain .... and running groups that I used to run with go off on all kinds of terrain.

So ... what do I do now? I really do not feel enthusiastic about trying a bazillion various "barefoot" shoes ...

edit: should mention that I am working on leg-strength, calf/ITB rolling, etc ... but I always have done a lot of that stuff.

PS - I'll be online more often again - school vacation is over :D
 
I feel your pain Willie. I am soon going to be faced with the same decision - transitioning back to shoes. After months of pavement, the trails are calling me. We need a transitioning back to shoes thread. Jason and Zap have had great success.

I've seen the crushed gravel that they put on roads in So. Germany. Pretty nasty stuff.
 
Oh man, the same is happening to me. After the surgery I started running in my VFF and feel the same way as you do with knee/hip pain.
BUT I am determimed to re-learn how to run in minimal shoes again so I have mixing my runs between BF/VFF.
Hopefully I could get the hang of it sooner rather than later.
 
I feel your pain Willie. I am soon going to be faced with the same decision - transitioning back to shoes. After months of pavement, the trails are calling me. We need a transitioning back to shoes thread. Jason and Zap have had great success.

I've seen the crushed gravel that they put on roads in So. Germany. Pretty nasty stuff.

Ooh, Ooh, Ooh, I can help with this one! I had to do it! I was so afraid of getting hurt when I went back to shoes so I 'transitioned;' You have to approach it with the same mentality as starting barefoot (which is REALLY hard to do). Slow and short sessions, building a little at a time. I didn't have to start at teh same .4 mile distances as I did bare, but it was like a 1-mile cap on my first two weeks' runs, paying very careful attention to form so I didn't lose my way. I then upped in very small doses over a 2-week period until I was up to my normal (4-6 miles, at that time) runs.

You can't assume it'll be 'easier' because you have good form, can listen to your body, and are a sixth degree barefoot ninja. Shoes change your game. Period. If you are cavalier in the least, you get hurt in either small annoying ways or big showstopper ways. It can be done (Jason, Zap, and, err, me[seems sooooo wrong to include myself on a list with ultra-studs/interweb barefoot celebs]), but it isn't as easy as it would seem on its face.
 
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Ooh, Ooh, Ooh, I can help with this one! I had to do it! I was so afraid of getting hurt when I went back to shoes so I 'transitioned;' You have to approach it with the same mentality as starting barefoot (which is REALLY hard to do). Slow and short sessions, building a little at a time. I didn't have to start at teh same .4 mile distances as I did bare, but it was like a 1-mile cap on my first two weeks' runs, paying very careful attention to form so I didn't lose my way. I then upped in very small doses over a 2-week period until I was up to my normal (4-6 miles, at that time) runs.

You can't assume it'll be 'easier' because you have good form, can listen to your body, and are a sixth degree barefoot ninja. Shoes change your game. Period. If you are cavalier in the least, you get hurt in either small annoying ways or big showstopper ways. It can be done (Jason, Zap, and, err, me[seems sooooo wrong to include myself on a list with ultra-studs/interweb barefoot celebs]), but it isn't as easy as it would seem on its face.

I agree Lomad. Found out the hard way last winter when I thought I could go strait into the Altra Lone Peaks at the same mileage I was doing barefoot. Knee pain stopped me halfway into a run. Later, in February, I thought I had figured it out again and tried a marathon in Trail Gloves and had a showstopper bout of ITBS. Walked the last 10 miles. I don't blame the use of shoes, but next time I try them it will be back to a slower process. Please keep posting about your use of shoes. It will be interesting to me how you approach this.
 
Man, this thread is confirming my worst fears. I have been suspecting, since I began bfing (that sounds oddly obscene), that I'd have a hard time going back to shoes assuming I ever wanted to or if I ultimately decided that this wasn't working for me. Other than one run in VFFs on a treadmill at the very beginning, when I've run in the last month, it's been exclusively barefoot. And I'm finding that not only do I want to RUN barefoot, I don't want to wear shoes ever, at all, and grumble when I absolutely have to do so.

So, NOW you tell me that shoe aversion syndrome (or, SAS) isn't a passing phase at all, but a genuine chronic infliction with which I must live for the remainder of my born days.

I'm really beginning to think that the publishers of "Born to Run" should be required to place a warning label on the cover of that book: "Danger. Reading this book may permanently alter the course of your running life, your social life, your work life, and your relationship with your in-laws. Read at your own risk."

But I suppose there are worse things. Like, for example, NSS, or Nike Spending Syndrome, which flairs up typically in spring and fall and is usually accompanied by bouts of knee pain, achilles injuries, plantar fasciitis, and less disposable income.

Guess SAS is for me. Is there a telethon for folks like us?
Languagessv>en YahooCEerror
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geesh, and I hadn't even thought about w-i-n-t-e-r ... yet. Thanks, guys :p ;)

huh, I guess I've kind of skipped over discussions on this topic in the past, not thinking it would ever apply to me ... <sigh> back to the drawing board.

To tansition to longer BF running, I was taking my shoes off during runs, and putting them back on.

Now I have to bring them along, wear them a couple hundred meters and then carry them again. Uggity-ugh.

Weird thing is that I've done plenty of runs that involve carrying water shoes and putting them on when the tarrain demanded it.
 
I guess I never fully transitioned to barefoot running. I did a half marathon Barefoot but due to 90 degree sunny days I was never able to ditch my shoes 100%. I have been in KSOs when needed with no real discomfort to speak of. I did transition from boat anchors to VFFs and the to barefoot though. For the folks having issues, did you go straight to barefoot from trainers?
 
Oooooo, I can contribute here too!!!! Lomad has it right, plain and simple. I will also add that you MUST find a shoe that works for you. This may mean some embarrassment for you as you return multiple upon multiple shoes as you find they don't work for you. In my experience you can usually tell inside of a week or two if a shoe is not going to work. Shoe fit is something I have had a hard time with which is very important for a shoe to work with you, even with the so called minshoes that are supposedly anatomically correct. I have a harder time than most with the fit of shoes I think, because of my flat feet causing the need for a wider midfoot in a shoe. Anyhow, hope this helps some.
 
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My problem is that I don't want to waste this great weather on shoes =(
Then when the winter gets nasty and I need to wear shoes, I will not have put in the time to transition correctly....quite the debacle......
:confused:
 
My problem is that I don't want to waste this great weather on shoes =(
Then when the winter gets nasty and I need to wear shoes, I will not have put in the time to transition correctly....quite the debacle......
:confused:
That's my problem too! I ran in sand socks last year, which were ok-ish, if a bit slipper like, but I don't think they'll be enough if we have real cold & anything other than Merrels (too narrow) or Vibrams (which everyone seems to say are bad for warmth) i'd have to order online.
 
Those actually sound really cool - maybe I'll find some Yurropean eqivalent :)

3 or 4 ... 30 0r 40 ... same difference ;)
The Moc3s are great back-up shoes too, for those days when you're not quite sure if the temp or conditions are going to be tolerable. They're easy to carry or roll-up in a hoodie pocket and slip on quick at the first sign of numbness.

And you're right, I don't see what the difference could be between shorter and longer runs with the Moc3s, but since I haven't tried them with longer runs, I thought I should include that caveat. I also got the RunAmocs with the thicker treads, but never needed them for running last winter, as all my runs were done when it was above 0 F or -18 C, usually much warmer. I don't even think I used socks. Seems like a little tread and cover was enough to keep the footsies warm on the half-dozen days I used the Moc3s.
 
Actually, KB has run on that kind of terrain barefoot over a very long distance, according to his bio, and that was during one of the two ultras he ran.

I understand Xero Shoes is coming out with a thicker footbed. And I believe Luna has a really thick one too. If those don't work for you, why not make your own out of tires like the Tarahumara do? Theirs are thick-mamas, and as you know, they cover every kind of nasty terrain out there for mega miles.
 
I understand Xero Shoes is coming out with a thicker footbed. ...

Thanks, TJ, but I don't need thick shoes - I've logged plenty of miles on rocks in worn-out water shoes. I need a minimum of protection in that regard. The point is that, for the last couple weeks, even the most minimal covering on my soles somehow causes me knee problems.

And staying up this late on a work night causes me morning problems <yawn>
 
My bad then. I should be off the Demerol soon. Too soon if you ask me.
 
I don't know if the bf-->shod transition is always necessary, is it? I ran with Moc3s last winter without incident. Granted, those are about as minimal as shoes can get, and I was only doing 3-to-4-mile runs at the time.

Agreed. I'm coming from a place of shoes with a cushion element. I could flip b/w bare and huaraches with no lag in running ability (form or distance). When I went to a cushioned shoe, and i imagine a thick huarache like the Leadvilles would be similar, I needed the transition mentality to keep myself in check.

Moc3's or similar zero cushion shoes may require little to no 'transition.' I hope to find out someday.
 
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