Maffetone Method...what's your experience with it?

Wild Runner wrote:Has anyone

Wild Runner said:
Has anyone seen any significant improvements beyond what they expected by using downhills for increased leg speed

Yeah, this was a question I had a while ago, at RunningAhead (I think) and nobody could really give a solid answer but basically, sure, why not? I think it's an excellent addition, keeps the legs turning, keeps it fun and keeps you in your range.
 
cheersI can see how running

cheers

I can see how running faster, even for the same low HR can be 'stressful' on the body. I ran 7.5 miles with the decline yesterday, and ran at 9 min mile pace, not fast for some, but a good 1:30 paster per mile than I am currently doing on the flat.

Breathing was still easy, even 4-4 (and in through the nose quite a bit), but even though the heart rate is well under control, I really felt like I had to concentrate a lot more. What the hell might it be like at 7 min miles at 137 bpm :) Hope to find out sometime
 
on trails the only way i get

on trails the only way i get any sort of speed is to go downhill. it makes a big difference from rolling 16 m/m to 14 m/m downhill. don't be fooled by those numbers as that's over each mile. i'm not that obsessed to break down each segment of my run. as we have some long downhills here i have to contain myself and retain some control otherwise my hr shoots up, high.
 
Wild Runner wrote:Has anyone

Wild Runner said:
Has anyone seen any significant improvements beyond what they expected by using downhills for increased leg speed?

I love running downhills, it's my only chance to practice high turnover at my cardio level. It works great, I'm even getting pretty confident running downhill on gravel and on rocky trails. Of course still not very fast, but about 8-9 minute mile instead of 12 minute mile. Bring on the technical downhills. :)
 
Woah! Where have I been?My

Woah! Where have I been?

My runs are all under 150 bpm at all times. The only exceptions to this are my MAF tests. My MAF tests look like this...

2 miles with a HR cap of 140
2 miles with a HR cap of 150
2 miles with a HR cap of 160
2 miles with a HR cap of 170
2 miles with a HR cap of 180

Aside from these MAF tests I do my best to keep my HR under 150, it usually averages somewhere around 147.

I havent tried any downhill running yet, but as soon as I feel confident that Im over this injury I will be hitting my big overpass often.
 
Willie, there was a thread

Willie, there was a thread somewhere on here a month or so ago about fasting and running. Not sure where just remember reading it. Also, as far as music I listen to a wide variety of music, including Sinatra which is definately not fast pace. Most of my music I listen to is slow paced music and it irritates my wife that I can work out/run to any music without needing it to pump me up for a run. I also don't use headphones, I like to hear whats around me and I don't care if others around me don't like my music. I can barely hear it as the Iphones external speaker isn't very loud so I know for the second or so that I am passing/being passed is all that they can hear it. Most of the time I wonder if they can even hear it anyways over the loud thumping of their shoes. Still amazes me how loud some people run.
 
Have any of you experimented

Have any of you experimented with fasting and running? Carbo-depletion? Heading out in the morning before breakfast, and going for at least 90 minutes? Anything like that?

Impressions? Opinions?

I know Maffetone himself advises against it in general, but I've done it in the past with what I think were good results. I'm looking to do some real fasting some time soon, maybe ten days, during which I want to try running regularly, albeit slowly in a very low HR range. That means lots of walking again, too. grrr...

LPJ also farts around with short-term fasting sometimes, but I don't remember reading any definitive statements from him pro or contra. He just seems to do it because it sounds logical.

Oh, another idea from the vault, while I'm at it - listening to relaxing, meditative music while running. I've done this in the past and think it really helps. Instead of the usual pump-me-up rock-me-like-a-hurricane-gabba-gabba-hey stuff that lesser people rely on to get them through what would be a miserable 45 minutes of torture, try using music that helps you relax, keep the HR down and breath even and deep. I know some ppl listen to books on mp3 while running, could be about the same thing, depending on the book.

Have to admit though, I haven't personally run with headphones, or earpods or music or whatever, for a looooong time.

These days, I meditate, lol. And do breath exercises. And could actually start a fresh thread on that subject! :)
 
NickW wrote:Still amazes me

NickW said:
Still amazes me how loud some people run.

I wrote a blog entry (at that other forum) about my battles with a runner at a marathon last year who I dubbed 'Scruffy McSpasatron' - he was scruffing his foot-coffin-encased feet something AWFUL, and running my exact pace. I couldn't get rid of him by speeding up or slowing down.... made me insane to the point where I just stopped for ten minutes to let him get way ahead of me.

Blog entry has since been removed, lol.

Noise does not compute with efficient, natural, healthy running. Never.
 
I wonder why they removed

I wonder why they removed your post? What's going on over there?! Censoring?! Are they really starting to play that game over there? Is this a hidden conspiracy by the evil shoe company's influence on RW? (TEASING about the evil comment, TEASING!)
 
Lol, Willie, you crack me up!

Lol, Willie, you crack me up! Makes me want to move to Germany so we could hang out!!!

TJ, I think your into something with your conspiracy theory... It wasn't long after I made my first post in the shoes forum that I got das boot! Nike must not approve.

As far as fasting, ive ran 26.23 miles (or 5.5 hours) on an empty stomach before, and lots of smaller runs fasted before as well. I keep wanting to try longer fasting periods, but food just tastes soo damn good!!!!
 
Nike wouldn't like my

Nike wouldn't like my signature then. ;-) I'd probably get the boot too!
 
Did an 8 mile trail run

Did an 8 mile trail run yesterday. Been off a bit with knee heeling. I decided to use the HRM and see what happens. I am 50 so I have been using 130. Frankly, I think it is way too low for anyone to train at 130. I know my body and I know when it goes from easy working to holy shit your killing me. If I keep my HR at or below 140 I feel great and can basically run forever. When I get above that I need fuel and my HR usually does a crazy jump from 140 -> 150 almost immediatly when I feel myself go into sugar mode. It would be cool to get on a machine to verify this is what happens but it really doesn't matter. I plan on using 140 as a training HR this year.
 
Did about 16km (~10 miles)

Did about 16km (~10 miles) today, with my new watch - first strict HR run I've done in a long time, since last winter in fact. Averaged 125bpm and kept 134 as my max. Every time I would hit that, I backed off and walked until my pulse dropped into the low 100s. It took a total of 2:18 to complete but there was a lot of walking involved because of gradients. I think my pace at MAF on level ground is actually somewhat better than it was last year. Now I want to do a MAF test and find out ...

Also, it was an adventurous run, lol! Low 30s but BF and in skimpy shorts again. A lot of the route took us (Leni and I) across flooded fields and mucky, slippery trails (which, now that I think about it, also played a role in slowing the pace so much). We had to cross a trench in one of the flooded fields and I went to a spot where I know there's a narrow 'land bridge' to get across, but I couldn't tell exactly where it was. Well, I got it half right. Stepped out with my left foot through the reeds and got lucky. But when I stepped with the right foot - ker sploosh! - down I went, right up to my belly button, in icy water, two miles from home. Half naked. In January. YEAHHHHHH! :)

I love that stuff.
 
hahahahahahahahahahhahahaha!

hahahahahahahahahahhahahaha! too funny. i am really laughing here. hahahahhahaah!!



back to serious. somewhat.

i ran about a week or two ago for two hours before breakfast. no problems for me. felt like a normal run. when i run before school i go for about half an hour to 45 min before i eat bfast. is Maffetone really against this? i was barely able to read the first section of the big book as i got it from the library.
 
dutchie53 wrote:Maybe

dutchie53 said:
Maybe barefoot, skimpy shorts, and a life jacket for the next run.
tounge_smile.gif

hahahaha! Life Jacket would be soooo funny!

Did a ~90min run this morning, avg HR 121, empty stomach, some long, sloping hills, educated guesstimate of around 12km. Felt quite good. Right around the 70min mark I felt how my energy shifted and pulse rose. Up to that point, I could really maintain a relatively snappy clip on the flats. Goal: increase that threshhold as far as possible.

Btw, I wanted to mention just in case someone may not quite understand this: The MAF number is the absolute peak that you should really not even hit except when you forget what you're doing. It's not the 'target' HR. After a run, your average should actually be below your MAF. How much below, I dunno. Depends. I'm personally dealing with the effects of overtraining, meaning I really hold back, so my average is going to be even lower than a lot of you, in relation to my MAF (which I dialed-in at 132 now and may drop to 130, depending on how well I recover, or not).

I did a pretty good job today of intuitively knowing when to back off, but my watch bleeped at me maybe 5 or 6 times, mostly on gradients.

Looking down at my gut - God I'm fat. How the heck did that happen? Oh yeah, Christmas cookies... beer.... :p
 
Another fan of the Maff

Another fan of the Maff method. I only did it for about 4 weeks during Nov/Dec last year before injuring my foot because I increased my time and distance way to fast. However, during that month I took my pace from 10:24/km to 8:40/km.

I'm back on the Maff routine now that my foot is better. Next 5km race is in April so plenty of time to really put in some good training and see what kind of result I can get.