I'm Confused

They run in shoes.

They run in shoes.

don't be confused. your feet

don't be confused. your feet will land in front of you no matter what. it's supposed to feel like your feet are landing underneath or nearly behind you. these are descriptions to help you learn how to run. from your perspective of looking down it will also appear that your feet land under/behind you. from someone else's perspective your feet will be in front of you but much less than a heel strike. plus going as fast as those runners were it's easy to overextend even landing forefoot.

don't let yourself go crazy with all the details. relax and run. if it doesn't feel right then adjust. it takes time, a lot sometimes so be patient.

Mike

If you watch some slow motion

If you watch some slow motion footage as they go by, you'll notice their feet may "touch" slightly in front of them, but their legs visibly load once they are over their feet. They are also hauling some major ass, so they have to get out front and match ground speed before loading. If you try to land under you without matching ground speed, you'll end up bobbing up and down and pounding your feet.

That said, there are some fast people who heel strike.

-Jonny

Here is the more detailed

Here is the more detailed version of what Mike said....

Every runner, always, will pass over his/her center of gravity over the full course of the footfall. If this were not true, then the runner would fall on his/her face, at least after several steps. (By footfall, I mean the time some part of the foot is touching the ground.)

Because the runner is moving, the exact moment over the center of gravity (CG) is but the tiniest sliver of time (say, 1 millisecond). The runner starts the footfall slightly behind the CG, moves over it, and finishes in front of it (because the runner has moved, but the foot has not).

Over course of the footfall, the foot touches ground for about 200-500ms, depending on the runner. Elite runners are closer to 200ms, possibly even faster. But, exactly half of that time will be behind of the CG and half in front of it (assuming constant speed).

The system must maintain an equalibrium that includes speed, duration of footfall, and lean angle. Without that equilibrium, the runner will fall, since the lean angle has to be balanced by the speed. The foot is the balance point of this system, and that must average out.

Even we barefooters, with our lightning-fast pull and sewing machine cadences, also land in behind of our CG, pass over it, and pull after it.

Landing exactly on the CG would place the entire footfall behind the CG, which would require you to accelerate to come back into equilibrium. Otherwise, the fall angle becomes ever sharper, and eventually you pay your greetings to the asphalt.

All of the above is true of heel landings in shoes as well. The problem with the heel landing is that the heel lands way ahead of the CG, thus making the footfall very long. You could add that their heel landing is braking their speed with every step.*

Forefoot runners generally have shorter footfalls. High cadence runners have shorter footfalls. And running barefoot naturally encourages this. We are just optimizing the physics of the system.

The ideal footfall would last just that tiny millisecond. But, this is not humanly possible. So, we try to get our cadence up and concentrate on a quick pull. But, above all, relax and have fun.

I hope that helps.

Cheers

Paleo



* I noticed this recently in a 10km race as we reached a long, gentle downhill slope. I started passing the other runners like lightning. I had to check my HRM to make sure I wasn't crazy, since it seemed so easy. Then I recalled KenBob's discussion in his recent book. Running barefoot makes it possible to avoid braking the way heel-strikers do. Since it was just a gentle downhill, I didn't need to worry about it getting too fast, so I could just cruise.

I really enjoyed this moment. I have always been small and light, and in the past have raced bicycles. We "mountain flees", of course, crush our competitors on the climbs, but get dusted on the descents, since we lack the weight to pull us downhill (against the air resistance at high speeds proportional to a big guy). Running, air resistance is not high enough to influence the effects of gravity much.

I find that if I study the

I find that if I study the motions and concentrate real closely on the details of my form and body parts' positions, etc., I fall on my face.

As Migangelo said, "don't let yourself go crazy with all the details. relax and run. """ "

Come to think of it, that's pretty much my philosophy of life.

I think what you should take

I think what you should take away from watching pro runners run is the knee-bend. Their knee seems to fall limp at a 90-degree angle in front of them when they run - an easy, smooth, gliding landing. Regardless of footstrike you can see they take care of their knees and never LOCK them and SMACK down in front of their center of gravity like many of us mortals do. They often run so fast their legs come out in front of them, but their body quickly catches up to their outward-stretched leg. When I run fast I feel the same thing (trying to protect my feet from scuffling)...

Like so:

http://bostonmarathon.runnersworld.com/files/2011/04/bos11d4-gmutai-200x300.jpg

Or like so:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pEwYimti44s/TWcivywEUAI/AAAAAAAAAD4/R4s-oHWru2A/s1600/hall.jpg



Just my $0.02...

I'm a bit confused as well.

I'm a bit confused as well. I keep hearing "don't pick up your knees" and lift your foot before you place it. I think I know what is meant by it and it seems to make sense when I see videos but it feels really odd during execution. I know I BFR with my knees not bent enough and muscles too tense; I'm really trying to stop that. But I must confess that things are made more difficult when I try to bend knees more and what not. Learning BFR is a very personal journey; it took Ken Bob years of practice to get where he is now.



Like Ken Bob and others, it's just gonna take years of practice to finally find form that I can relax in and not cause muscle strain. Eventually, something should click and the only way I can think of making it click is to have more practice runs on gravel or sand, perferably the gravel.

Bill, I can see what you mean

Bill, I can see what you mean about pulling the road back, but I think that mental image might lead to problems, since the foot should be stationary on the ground. It is your body that is moving over the foot. The foot should move only up and down.

What I do (but I am not one of the "big names") is just simply think about pulling the foot fast. I focus my attention, however, on that protruding bone in the lateral ankle (bottom of the fibula). That way, I avoid thinking about anything that might influence the action of the foot itself. I want the foot to be as relaxed as possible--just doin' its own thing, as we learned on Sesame Street. If I actually think about the foot, then I am bound to introduce some kind of tension.

Sometimes I think about the space behind the knee. I think 1/4 about lifting it and 3/4 about closing the space as my calf muscles approaches my hamstrings. Since the hamstrings should be doing the lion's share of the work in running, this mental image seems to work well.

Try getting your cadence to 190-200. 180 is frequently recommended, but I do 204-208 and find that to guarantee a fast pull. When I count my cadence, I say out loud "Pull, pull, pull, pull...." and count the pulls with my fingers (only one foot, then double it). That way, I never allow myself to count or think about the landing itself.

Above all, nothing should be exagerated. Even with a fast pull, it should always feel relaxed, moderate, even gentle.

BTW: Working on your form is a continuous process. I have been running barefoot for 15 months, and (after a break due to injury) I spent about 2 years working on my form in minimalist shoes (taking most of my cues from the Pose method). After all that, I am sure that I am doing things mostly right. But, I continue to work on it and notice small refinements occurring even now.

Cheers

Paleo

I'm no big name, but when I'm

I'm no big name, but when I'm going faster (7:00/mile or so), which I don't do all the time, my cadence falls around 215-230. Just some other different data for you to consider. My normal, comfortable pace (around 8:30/mile) puts me at about 200. 180 is just too slow for my comfort. Everybody is different - the 180 is just a starting point for reference. Find whatever works best for you and go with it. Somebody earlier posted a website, www.jog.fm that give you a list of songs at different rates (beats per minute, or bpm). That's been helpful for me.