Doing the Duck-Step Boogie

skedaddle

Barefooters
Sep 3, 2011
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Does the form book go out of the window with distance running? I find that after x many miles it’s almost impossible to keep form and i end up waddling like an un-coordinated duck.

Is this the best i can hope for or does it get better?

I'm curious, do you distance runners vary your form as the race progresses to compensate for tired legs? I find bending my knees very hard beyond a certain point.
 
The longer I run, the harder

The longer I run, the harder it is to keep my form. I think the stronger you are, the longer your form will last. I need to work on overall strength.
 
Thanks TJWhen you say

Thanks TJ

When you say overall strength do you me core strength. i've never really worked on my upper body past a few pushups every morning.

The thing is i don't mind waddling like a duck, i can go for miles like that beyond my normal running form cut-off, i haven't got to the stage of quacking and seeking out bread yet, but i suppose that comes after mile fifty and beyond.
 
skedaddle wrote:i haven't

skedaddle said:
i haven't got to the stage of quacking and seeking out bread yet, but i suppose that comes after mile fifty and beyond.

Ha ha ha! That made me laugh! I'm not a long distance runner yet, so I'm not sure, but I do notice that the more I run the stronger I get and the better my form is over my longer distances. I'm not sure if there is a point where you just get fatigued and your form goes out the window no matter how much training you do. I am interested to see the responses from the long distance runners on here though.
 
I think just getting your

I think just getting your overall body, lungs, muscles, tendons, bones, etc., to be as strong as they possibly can. Like Nick said, there's a breaking point for all of us though regardless of how strong or experienced you are.

After I have the surgery to remove the neuromas, I hope to be able to get back to being as strong as or stronger than I once was. It's hard to do that when you have a nerve condition though.
 
Speed work has done wonders

Speed work has done wonders for my strength, endurance, pace, breathing, etc. There is something about that Generation UCAN super-starch that seems to help my breathing and stamina too. I do slow down, but my form seems to be the same. I'm no where near even thinking about mile 50, but even when I've run myself out of energy and my legs were trashed, I seem to have a coasting speed that kicks in.

-Jonny
 
Maybe I just haven't pushed

Maybe I just haven't pushed myself out there past my envelope yet, but I don't know what duckstepping feels like. Next year, perhaps - I'm contemplating signing up for a 30K trail run.
 
If you're form is going out

If you're form is going out the window, you're going too far.

(Which is not to say that I let that stop ME. Just saying that you best prepare to pay the consequences. ;-) )
 
That's why the strength and

That's why the strength and the distance need to build in conjunction with one another, at the same time.

Jonny, yes, I think speed work is a good way to increase both strength and distance.
 
Thanks peopleIve had

Thanks people

I’ve had my mind set on running an ultra since i took up running, i don’t do direct speed work per-say, but i do train on hills.

I think i agree with buzzie, i know i’m not up to strength yet, by a long shot, but i also feel that i should push the boundaries to get where i need to be. I think there’s only so much caution you can take with such endeavours, somewhere i need to switch from head to heart, the duck waddle is just me doing that, running on empty if you will, beyond the point i would have normally stopped.

I do have a bit of a reckless personality, jump in feet first and sort out the mess later, i’m too long in the tooth for that to change now, but it’s who i am, so i just roll with it.
 
Just be careful doing the

Just be careful doing the 'dive in and see what happens' program of BF running. I decided to do 3.2 miles the other night because I plan on running a 5k BF in December. I can knock out 2.75 easily and have even done 3. But Monday's run, of 3.2., shredded my feet. I think it was because I became fatigued and lost my form. I definitely notice my form starting to slip after about 2.5 miles...right about the same time I start feeling tightness in my calf. I know that doesn't really count as long distance for most of you folks, but for me, who was a non-runner a year ago, it is. :)
 
I think that that's the real

I think that that's the real dividing line in this issue. I am doing my best to keep my BFR within the envelope and to not get hurt at all. I want to run for the rest of my life, and, sitting here at the computer, anyway, plan on just doing it step by step. I do recognise the urge to push, to go with the adrenalin and the testosterone.

Have you read the blog posts by SaintJohnthe Gambler? He runs ultras and doesn't to greyhound the whole things. He unabashedly settles into "waddle" to achieve great things.
 
I agree with Joseph. I want

I agree with Joseph. I want to do this for the rest of my life, so I don't want to screw it up in the beginning. There have been runs where I've wanted to keep going, but I tell myself "no". I'm trying to take it up gradually and systematically. Build the muscles and tendons up. Focus on form.

I find that having a metronome on my phone helps. When I feel my form starting to slip, I turn on the metronome to 180 bpm, and it refocuses me and gets me back on track.
 
I agree Joseph, what ever

I agree Joseph, what ever works for an individual is the right thing for that individual.

Me, i like to test myself, not in a macho way, more to find out about my hidden self. I wouldn't even care if i was a DNF on my first ultra, it's the fact that i'm acting on an idea that is important to me. There is always risk in life whatever you do, its finding the right balence that's the hard part.

What makes me laugh is that you can sit on your butt your whole life, eat junk, smoke, drink like a fish and nobody bats an eyelid.

As soon as you say your going to do something challenging all you get is "you're crazy" "don't be stupid" "you'll injure yourself" "you're too old to do something like that" The list of negatives is endless.
 
skedaddle - I wouldn't try to

skedaddle - I wouldn't try to talk you out of much of anything... I am also a school-of-self-induced-hard-knocks learner. ;)

But, just wanted to add my observation - when my form goes, and I start running funny, it's just the start of a chain reaction where all sorts of other stuff starts to go wrong. So, I'm slowly starting to learn to heed the warnings, depending on my current goals - push or not push, back off today so I can toe the line tomorrow, that kind of thing.
 
Being an Army Infantry vet, I

Being an Army Infantry vet, I was trained to always put everything I have into my task and that I can push myself far beyond what I thought possible. Now though, switching to barefoot running I have had to learn that I can still push myself like that, BUT, I need to listen to my body too and as soon as I have any pain I have to immediately stop or I risk getting an injury. In the infantry I learned how to block out discomfort and also pain and keep going. Now I'm trying to balance blocking out discomfort but listening when there is pain.

I do believe that you have to push yourself in order to get better. I know a lot of people may disagree with this, but I didn't run a 5 minute mile pace while I was in the Army because I trained at an 8 minute mile pace. I ran that pace because I was not allowed to run with a slower group and I was forced to run with the fast group (in which every single person was faster than me) because I was borderline fast and borderline just so-so. I had to push myself just to keep up with them on runs which over time made me faster.
 
buzzie, i'm glad i'm not the

buzzie, i'm glad i'm not the only one who went to that school, it's not that i enjoy the thought of pain or getting injured, i just don't want to live by other peoples fears and mistakes, if i take a nose dive, then i want it to be spectacularly and gloriously mine.

Does this mean that i don't listen to people? Hell no, i have great respect and admiration for the advice i recieve.

We run our paths, sometimes they cross, sometimes we're out there alone, finding our own way.
 
skedaddle said:
 i haven't
skedaddle said:
skedaddle said:
i haven't got to the stage of quacking and seeking out bread yet, but i suppose that comes after mile fifty and beyond.







hahaha, that's funny, word of caution thou if you start to seek bread you must stay out of TJ's way(she has a history when it comes down to feeding bread to geese).

Back on topic, on my long runs when I feel my form going south I take walk breaks and that fixex my problem.

Actually, I do the Galloway method on all my long runs of 14 miles and up.
 
buzzie wrote:skedaddle -

buzzie said:
skedaddle - But, just wanted to add my observation - when my form goes, and I start running funny, it's just the start of a chain reaction where all sorts of other stuff starts to go wrong.



This is so true.