Question about striking the ground

KevinHughes

KevinHughes

Barefooters
Jun 22, 2010
2
0
0
#1
I'm interested in getting a sense of how people strike the ground when they run barefoot. Obviously we're not heel strikers, but what does that mean? For instance, up until now, I've been landing on my midfoot and then letting my heel hit the ground next. But after some faster running made my shins flare up, I'm curious how hard your heel is supposed to strike the ground, if at all. (I used to get bad shinsplints running shod).

I've experimented with putting all my weight on the balls of my feet. I let the heels touch the ground, but they just kiss it gently. There's two immediate downsides to this kind of stride: 1) I'm bouncing up and down more, which isn't desirable. 2) I feel like the ball of my foot is actually striking the ground harder than my normal barefoot stride. If I stepped on a stone running this way I wouldn't be able to react as well as I usually do when I am putting my whole foot down.

Does putting 95% of my weight on the midfoot sound like a good barefoot stride? Or do I need to put my whole foot more firmly on the ground? I admit it's possible that I was simply letting my heels hit the ground first without realizing it. Maybe I just need to pay attention more?

I'm interested in any input, thanks!
 
#2
first thing to do, you should

first thing to do, you should buy/download "Barefoot Running" by Michael Sandler, it is hands down the best how-to book ive read so far. TONS about where and how to land. awesome info.

this is how i land: i land on the outside of the fore-foot then my weight compresses my foot onto the ground, my heel kisses the pavement and then its being lifted almost instantly again.

to fix the bobbing try and speed up your cadence - when i jog i bounce a little, when i run with the exact same stride i smooth right out. someone was saying to shoot for 180 s/m. if you arnt up to that speed yet shoot for smooth and light, if you can keep it light and smooth you should be fine.

but im no pro, Michael Sandler is, check the book out.
 
#3
...also, you might find your

...also, you might find your stride smooths out and softens if your knees are bent a bit more than might seem natural at first. I'm not sure why I think so, but I get the impression that you're striking somewhat harder than is optimal. BF Ken Bob has lots of good suggestions for developing properer form on his website, too.

One particular thing I remember from when I was reading to get started is that he tells us to start picking our feet up before they're quite to the ground. Yeah, strange. I think it's like a Zen koan that improve one's soul (or, in this case, soles) just by contemplating it.
 
#4
Ouch!  Striking the ground

Ouch! Striking the ground barefoot, with any part of the foot is a no-no. It's best not to strike anything with your feet. Instead, think about planting the foot and lifting the foot. Bend your knees, more so than you think you should, and you will find that you are placing most of your weight over the middle of your foot (midfoot), as you should be. Remember, running on your toes is for sprinters. Unless you are sprinting, I would go for the midfoot landing.

Now, of course the more you bend your knees, and the more often you bend your knees, you will find that your calves are working differently than they did in shoes with elevated heels, so expect that you will have some soreness in your calves, but after some time, it will pass.

Adorable baby!
 
#6
The only thing I can add is,

The only thing I can add is, LISTEN TO YOUR FEET! If they are burning, or are yelling at you, please stop; otherwise you may end up with a corn like me, and have lingering pain for 3 weeks. Not fun.
sad_smile.gif
 
#7
yip TJ pretty much covered it

yip TJ pretty much covered it all.

Aim for a midfoot landing (not strike ;) ) then the rest will follow, it doesnt matter if the forefoot or heel follow first.

The whole foot need to be in contact with the floor, but only for a very short time.

Think about lifting the foot before it even touches the ground, tricky but something to aim for, I have also battled with this concept, but it does help prevent striking the foot down.
 
#8
The only time you run without

The only time you run without your heel touching the ground should be while sprinting. I know people describe barefoot running as either forefoot or midfoot landing, but I would definitely recommend midfoot. From my own experience and from what I have read it is much better than a forefoot landing followed by the heel coming down. Midfoot landing utilizes the shock absorption of the arch better and primes you to immediately lift off for your next stride. Forefoot landing puts more strain on the achilles and calves and the 2 step process (heel has to come down) is not as efficient for getting your cadence going. Really want to run light and "kiss" the ground.
 
#9
What helps me, and I am also

What helps me, and I am also new at this so all my mistakes are nice and fresh, is to think of putting my foot under me and not reach out in front. I started out just running the same as always but making foot contact a little different. Surprisingly, how much you swing your arms will affect how far you let your foot go before putting it down cause one can't stop if the other is still going, so if you're having trouble putting your feet under you, check your arm swing. Actually, I think mine is more a whole upper body swing now. Pointing my toes and reaching too far forward use to set off my shins.

I also think of my landing as "flat footed" but it's really landing on the 4th knuckle of my foot first, then toes, then light touch of the heal which allows the arch to work and I read somewhere is more oxygen efficient. Someone also put it best in another thread somewhere on this site...your foot should be "floppy". Not that if actually flops around like a sock half on when you run, but that this should be a very relaxed movement, so losten up. When I put this into practice which almost forces you to "sit down" in your stance more(a la bent knees), the tensions in my shins went away. It becomes more like riding a bike, without a bike. For some reason, this is harder for me to do on a treadmill than outside.

I've also read the 180 steps per min to be considered optimal. It "seems" fast, but it has something to do with the downward force being turned into rotational force and absorbed by the legs. If you move quickly enough, then you get some of that energy back as you extend and it makes running easier and more efficient.

-Jonny
 
#10
Does anyone have an idea why

Does anyone have an idea why we need to let the heel touch? There typically isn't any weight being borne by the heel so I'm not sure if it actually needs to touch? The only reason I can possibly think of is proper elastic recoil? However you can a stroinger recoil from teh achilles while sprinting by keeping the calf more tense.

Hmm maybe overuse of the calf muscle or too much sustained tension the achilles?
 
#12
Abide, without heel touch,

Abide, without heel touch, the relaxation of the foot/leg is never complete. It doesn't need to be long. We all agree that it shouldn't happen first. But, if the heel doesn't touch the ground, then some tension in the foot and lower leg must remain (to hold the heel off the ground).

Above all, I would recommend trying not to think about the landing at all. Think about relaxing, think about pulling, and think about leading with the hips. The rest (incl. the landing) will come with time.

Cheers

Paleo
 
#13
Paleo wrote:Above all, I

Paleo said:
Above all, I would recommend trying not to think about the landing at all. Think about relaxing, think about pulling, and think about leading with the hips. The rest (incl. the landing) will come with time.
Click to expand...

This would be my advice as well. If you are thinking about it chances are you are tense.



Paleo said:
Abide, without heel touch, the relaxation of the foot/leg is never complete. It doesn't need to be long. We all agree that it shouldn't happen first. But, if the heel doesn't touch the ground, then some tension in the foot and lower leg must remain (to hold the heel off the ground).
Click to expand...

Ok, then a couple of more questions. If I think about a cyclical stride you would go from a relaxed calf muscle when pulling to a tense calf when landing, and once your heel touches back to the relaxed state? Why does it matter when you reach the relaxed state?

So what's the deal with sprinitng then? Shouldn't your form be almost identical between speeds? Or should this change when doing a maximal effort run?
 
#14
Distance running relies on

Distance running relies on efficiency, for sprinting you need power. The differences in form are pretty obvious if you youtube some of the top athletes. Ryan Hall is probably the best american marathoner ever and is a good a choice as any to look at form (shod that is).
 
#15
But DO think about bending

But DO think about bending the knees. It is impossible to heelstrike with bent knees.
 
#16
mykroberts wrote:Distance

mykroberts said:
Distance running relies on efficiency, for sprinting you need power. The differences in form are pretty obvious if you youtube some of the top athletes. Ryan Hall is probably the best american marathoner ever and is a good a choice as any to look at form (shod that is).
Click to expand...

Like maybe the difference between running up a hill or stairs where the heel doesn't touch vs. running on a flat surface where it should? I tend to think of hills and stairs more in terms of strength training than cardio (although that's always there, too). Endurance is about maximizing efficiency, right? Which would mean maximizing the benefits of the Achilles spring by stretching it as much as possible before release?
 
#17
I know from my own experience

I know from my own experience it seem like when you try and "lift the foot before you land" you sort of delay the landing, going kind of passive, instead of anticipating it and then forcing it. It feels like the I'm kind of floating along keeping my leg bent and then the ground comes up to meet my foot.

Hard to be patient when, because of keeping cadence (military cadence songs are good for pacing btw) I want to land already and get the next footfall going. By taking my mind off this focus and instead focus on lifting before landing the net result is a more proper retention of knee angle instead of landing with straighter legs like a coffin shod runner might.

I think of the "lifting" as a mental distraction to let things happen naturally; something to focus on to "get out of the way". Hope I explained that well enough.

John
 
#18
Barfuß Chelsea wrote: Like

Barfuß Chelsea said:
Like maybe the difference between running up a hill or stairs where the heel doesn't touch vs. running on a flat surface where it should? I tend to think of hills and stairs more in terms of strength training than cardio (although that's always there, too). Endurance is about maximizing efficiency, right? Which would mean maximizing the benefits of the Achilles spring by stretching it as much as possible before release?
Click to expand...

That is why I am curious if it really matters. I have run quite a few miles uphill with few heel touches and it felt fine?
 
#19
Abide wrote:That is why I am

Abide said:
That is why I am curious if it really matters. I have run quite a few miles uphill with few heel touches and it felt fine?
Click to expand...

I just mean that if running uphill is more about exerting brute strength than being efficient, it might be "normal" that the body goes about overcoming the obstacle in a slightly different way. Although I don't know that that's the case. Just speculating.

On the other hand, it just occured to me that when running uphill, the Achilles probably is stretching as much as it does when it touches the ground while you're running on a flat surface, but because of the negative angle behind the foot, there's just no contact with anything. If there were, it would be because the Achilles were stretching further than normal?

Anyone with an actual degree in this stuff care to weigh in? :p
 
#20
Well, I am not an expert in

Well, I am not an expert in physiology, but here is my understanding.

The lower leg is all about support, not propulsion. Ideally, you would have no tension. But, that won't work because you have to buffer the landing, which we know from Liebermann and Davis etc. to be somewhere between 3 and 9 Gs of force.

The resulting tension is (ideally) involuntary, rather like the human breathing mechanism. You just do it; you don't have to think about it. So when you land, the body just knows what to do. Furthermore, this tension is eccentric loading of the muscles. (Eccentric loading of the muscles is much less taxing, which is why it is used when recovering from an injury.

If the runner doesn't relax at the point where the heal touches the ground, then the lower leg remains stiff (or at least stiffer, since totally relaxed would probably leave me on the ground). If the leg is stiff, then more of those Gs will be thrust up through the body, starting with the lower leg muscles. That seems more likely to cause damange.

Nick Romanov has some things about using the lower leg muscles as a natural spring. There might be something to that. But, my own experience has been that I feel better when I relax. Mostly, I notice it the day after a good hard run. Since I have been running barefoot and trying to keep a relaxed foot, I have no muscles soreness (after the initial adaptation). Before, when running in minimalist shoes, I still had mornings where getting out of bed was stiff and painful.

I would think that a sprint should be no different. After all, the cadence will remain nearly the same (in my case, it rises from 200 to 212 or 216 strikes per minute). The stride is longer, but the time the foot is on the ground is also nearly the same. Thus the time that the muscles need for relaxing is the same.

As I said, I am no expert in this. The above is a combination of my experience and my reading on the subject.

I hope that helps.

Cheers

Paleo

P.S. the real challenge here is that "relaxing" is akin to the "be spontaneous" problem. The minute you think about relaxing, you are already introducing thought into something that probably works just fine without consciousness meddling.
 
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