A PT talks about alignment (was: Things to consider when starting BFR)

I am new to running in

I am new to running in minimalist shoes (it seems I should state that I wear VFFs) and actual barefeet on a couple of occasions. I LOVE running barefoot, and I love running in the VFFs. I feel like I was born to run this way. I grew up barefoot, and as an adult go barefoot most of the time. I agree with the experienced runners on this post about TMTS. I like to push myself to go farther, do better and it's seriously hard to hold myself back from running my normal weekly miles. I just can't do it yet in BF/VFFs. It hurts something every time i do. My calves hurt in the beginning. Then my ankle started hurting and is swollen. Now that I've got a better form my hamstring hurts. So, I am holding back, and listening to my body, but the joy of running is beckoning me. Sigh. I haven't been able to run the past couple of days and I'm itching to get out there. I'm glad I joined this society, it's given me some good tips and it lets me know this is normal, to go slow, verrrry slow lol.

Barefoot TJ wrote:It's not

Barefoot TJ said:

It's not that simple for everyone, Jonny. Some people adapt quite easily, some people take longer. Sometimes, I think I'm still learning as I go, and I've been at this for a little while. It would be nice if all we had to do was take our boat anchors off, have the pain go away, and be normal again. But that's not always the case. Some of us have been damaged (developed bad habits that are difficult to shed), some of us have nagging injuries, and some of us have ankles and feet that have atrophied that need to be strengthened before we can just go out and run any distance or speed we want. It takes time to adapt to the new way of running, whether that be musculoskeletal or with our plantar skin.

I hope I misundertood your meaning because there's a lot of good advice and information in this thread provided by a lot of experienced people, some of them who have learned the most common lesson...TMTS.

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My message was one of confusion at the initial posting and related title, not condemnation of any part of the thread/responses. If that's what you got, then you read me right. Title just didn't seem to jive with the content and read like something I'd expect to find in the "Ask the Docs" section, is all.

The title led me to believe there would be advise on multiple aspects of entry into this new (to me) world. As someone with a sit in front of the computer job, a hamstring tendon where my left ACL use to be, no large intestine, mild lower lumbar scoliosis, a left clavical shortened by 1/2 centimeter to correct an impingement, an assortment of kricks, catches and pops in my neck, back and joints from collision sports, sports in general, 2 major car crashes(not my fault, I swear), 11 motorcycle crashes from roadracing(most DEFINITELY my fault!), age in general and the usual TV watcher body neglect, I'm aware there are things that must be overcome in order to move correctly. However, I am also aware, by the pops, shifts and how I feel when I lift heavy weight, first move around in the morning since beginning BFR and the way I feel when I run, that most things find a way to work themselves out. Maybe the "pounding" from foot to foot in the proper way helps shake things into position?? IDK...I just know I feel better than I have in a long time!

The section on the hips and rotation was a little confusing for me. Maybe I'm not reading it right or it needs to be dumbed down for me, IDK. Seems to me that running, in simple terms, regarding impact forces is a ground up event. Doesn't foot strike, location of impact related to COG, form and body position send the causation from the foot up through the hips and not the other way around?

What sort of discussion was the author hoping to generate? Maybe some direction would help? Is he saying body alignment is the true cause of the running injuries we attribute to soft wedge running shoes and heal striking?

-Jonny

Umm.  Ok, new guy here, but

Umm. Ok, new guy here, but I'll take a stab at it. I was having a really rough time transitioning to BF from comeplete shod my whole life and running career. I just couldn't figure out what the hell people were talkin' about in the various locations in the interwebs about 'natural running form.' Sure, they explain it over and over, and in 50 different ways. It's still something that I could not read and grasp.



Finally I e-mailed someone and he replied with, "It's natural. Just go out there and run, if it hurts, think about that because you're probably doing it wrong." With that, I was able to go run BF and I slowly got less and less blisters (I have a habbit of pushing off). My ITBS doesn't act up like it used to. Now I'm able to run again, if a much shorter distance and a bit slower. That will come with time, though.



I hope that helps.



-Vickers

Jonny00GT wrote:What sort of

Jonny00GT said:

What sort of discussion was the author hoping to generate? Maybe some direction would help? Is he saying body alignment is the true cause of the running injuries we attribute to soft wedge running shoes and heal striking?

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Jonny, this is the nature of online forums. Quality and relevance varies. Yeah, the title of the thread and initial post diverge somewhat from where the thread has gone. Editing it forcefully so that it all "makes sense" would be way too much work and also remove some interesting perspectives.

So- check out all the other threads. Take the chunky with the smooth. Listen to your body as much or more than some book or internet thread -- that message is what distinguishes barefoot running from every other "school" of running. If you're feeling better and not hurting yourself, then there's probably no need to worry about understanding the mechanical basis of somebody else's idea of perfect form. Whatever the f**k that is!!

Also make sure to drink afterwards.

stomper wrote:Jonny00GT

stomper said:

Jonny00GT said:

What sort of discussion was the author hoping to generate? Maybe some direction would help? Is he saying body alignment is the true cause of the running injuries we attribute to soft wedge running shoes and heal striking?

Click to expand...

Jonny, this is the nature of online forums. Quality and relevance varies. Yeah, the title of the thread and initial post diverge somewhat from where the thread has gone. Editing it forcefully so that it all "makes sense" would be way too much work and also remove some interesting perspectives.

So- check out all the other threads. Take the chunky with the smooth. Listen to your body as much or more than some book or internet thread -- that message is what distinguishes barefoot running from every other "school" of running. If you're feeling better and not hurting yourself, then there's probably no need to worry about understanding the mechanical basis of somebody else's idea of perfect form. Whatever the f**k that is!!

Also make sure to drink afterwards.

Click to expand...

Yeah, that makes sense! Egh...now I'm craving peanutbutter!!

What drink do you recomend? I've been drinking water while I run gatoraid after, but just switched to chocolate milk. Please tell me Amie wasn't pulling our legs with the chocolate milk post-run drink recomendation! My wife is so excited! LOL!

Quote:What drink do you

[quote/]What drink do you recomend? I've been drinking water while I run gatoraid after, but just switched to chocolate milk. Please tell me Amie wasn't pulling our legs with the chocolate milk post-run drink recomendation! My wife is so excited! LOL![/quote]

Screw chocolate milk, the nectar of gods of course!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-491236/A-pint-beer-better-workout-water-say-scientists.html

I must say that I was

I must say that I was incredibly skeptical about BFR. I've been in the medical field for 14 years and in the fitness field for 3 and I've never heard anyone say that no shoes was good news. I've had knee pain for years (due to a long stint at 350 pounds aggravating old high school sports injuries) and my trainer always told me, it's all about the shoes. I started running again, as of late, simply because I love it. And sure enough, the stupid knee pain haunted me to the point of practically throwing myself out of bed in the morning because my knees just wouldn't work. I was desperate to run, however, so I did research and that's where I came across BFR. I thought, "You've got to be kidding me. This is going to help me?" But, I was desperate. So, I tried it.

Running in shoes: I was exhausted and didn't have the energy to even give my muscles or heart a good work out. I just couldn't go anymore long before I ran out of breath. I ran "funny" as my PT boyfriend called it. I would favor my left leg and my right would bend inward. I couldn't gain any endurance due to the energy loss.

Running BF: I ran 1/4 mile the first time on my treadmill, and never lost an ounce of energy. I actually felt my muscles work and I knew I was actually getting a work out. My body moved fluidly and in-line, again according to my in house PT. The next day, I felt good, no... AMAZING! And, no knee pain in sight.



I've been running BF for two weeks now, and I can't get enough. I haven't had any knee pain since. Absolutely none. I am stunned. I am sold. And I am in heaven now that I can run again. All the mechanics, all the scientific stuff, even though I know it, I honestly don't care. It works, I'm not questioning it.

houseofbritton, that is a

houseofbritton, that is a pretty cool story you hae there. I was in a similar boat. knees were basically shot and running was becoming more of a deathmarch than a run. when I decided to give BF a try, it was a last resort. I've had very little knee pain in the last three years and when I do it wasn't from running.



What happened to the OP? Bummer because I had asked what I thought was a good question inline with their ability and topic about alighnment, Well, guess I'll get that answer elswere.

welcome,

welcome, houseofbritton!

Lava, I'm not sure if the OP is ever going to come back. My repsonse to the OP was basically this: Okay, the OP is right that people are very inactive these days and BF running is probably not all that they need. But the cure the OP seems to be proposing -- "developing proper alignment" or some such thing -- sounds completely subjective. If this problem can only be detected by going to some special kind of therapist (such as the OP), and treated by some special kind of therapy (which the OP happens to offer), then the "discussion" the OP tried to start is just an ad.

Actually I don't mind if people mention or offer their services here. And it's great if people share their expertise. But if what they are essentially saying is "trust me, pay me, I know what's good for you" -- without actually offering any evidence that they have observed real BF runners -- then I feel like I'm going another round with the dark side of podiatry.

I think I am going to change the name of this thread to something like "a PT talks about alignment" or something like that, because the current name ("Things to consider when starting BFR") is not accurate and people keep posting in it.

I feel ya stomper. and

I feel ya stomper. and understand.

I do know alignment is imoprtant especially when you start tweaking here abnd there. I was very curious but not enough to shell out serious $$ for it.

Here is some advice for

Here is some advice for alignment issues. Quit using your dominant hand for everything, switch back and forth regularly. It is amazing how much this helps.