From trails back to pavement = recipe for disaster ??

#21
swoggis wrote:I'd say, if you

swoggis said:
I'd say, if you have any pain when you push on the spot after your two weeks off, get the MRI. Things stopped hurting two weeks ago, but that doesn't mean the bone is actually healed. If you keep going out for runs as soon as the pain subsides, and it really is a fracture, you may end up with a much longer uncertainty/recovery period like me.
Click to expand...

Thanks Swoggis,

as of today (4 weeks minus two days since the injury) I feel a great improvement, the ankle is not swollen anymore, I can even walk more relaxed, there is only a very slight pain (soreness) when I push directly on the spot.

168430_1700666607919_1575561526_1618629_1278283_n.jpg




I am curious what was helping you during the recovery process. Should I keep icing it or is warming it up more beneficial at his time? I stopped using the compression stocking since I do not feel any swelling there anymore and when I put something that compresses it on it actually hurts more. To maintain the plantar skin conditioning I at least walk a mile every other evening.
 
#22
Once it feels healed

Once it feels healed certainly give it additional time to rest. As far as MRI well do what ya are comfortable with.......
 
#23
Paraganek, that is the exact

Paraganek, that is the exact spot where my fracture is (except on my left side). I suspect the major contributor to my healing (I'm assuming that the pain going away indicates healing...) is simply the cessation of impact activities (i.e. running and jumping). I don't use heat. During my twice a week PT sessions, I get joint mobilization and assisted stretching from my therapist along with a bunch of lower leg strengthening exercises and balance work. Each session finishes with 15 minutes of electrical stimulation on the injury with an icepack wrapped around my lower leg. I do swimming, weights, and some balance/stretching stuff on two of the non-PT days during the week. So, possibly the electrical bit is helping speed up the recovery? It doesn't seem to be hurting anything at any rate.

Aside from the actual injury then, my PT is targeted at remediating my overly stiff ankle joints (I have no dorsiflexion to speak of), strengthening the lower leg muscles that stabilize the joint and the arch of my foot, and retraining my ankle so that its 'default' alignment is closer to neutral (my left pronates noticeably more than my right). Presumably this will decrease the likelihood of overworking my fibula when I start running again... about 10 days from now if all goes well... Neither my doc nor my PT are advocates of barefoot running, but they aren't pushing motion-control shoes or orthotics either... maybe because I give the impression that I'm kind of stubborn about this barefoot thing. ;)

Oh, and since I'm trying to heal a bone, I've cut the Coca-Cola out of my diet completely and take a calcium supplement daily. To maintain my plantar conditioning, I've resorted to the odd 20 minutes here and there of marching in place (gently) in a basin of aquarium gravel. (winter conditions in Jersey this year have not been conducive to barefoot walking around my neighborhood).
 
#24
swoggis wrote:paraganek, that

swoggis said:
Paraganek, that is the exact spot where my fracture is (except on my left side).......my overly stiff ankle joints (I have no dorsiflexion to speak of)........Presumably this will decrease the likelihood of overworking my fibula when I start running again
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing Swoggis. I see some similarities in here. I got injured at the exactly same spot, I too have less flexible ankles because of the partial tarsal coalition and I too had been running on asphalt for a couple of months before this happened.

Interesting side note about the bone scan results:

Although there was nothing indicating a stress fracture on fibula, my doctor pointed out two spots on both my tibias (circled yellow) saying those indicate the bones are a bit stressed in those areas trying to repair themselves and grow stronger (which I think is TMTS in other words :shy: )


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#25
It is amazing how many

It is amazing how many different ways TMTS injuries can be manifested.

You were doing too many miles on too often of a basis. As you obviously have figured out now. Time for a nice really long rest from running......

Make sure you get plenty of calicum.

It is threads like this tht are good reminders for all of us. Thanks for sharing your experience with us.

I do wonder about how your form was though. We have three natural shock absorbers - forefoot, knees, hips. I wonder if you were not making the most of using those shock absorbers. Seems this would not have happen if you were using them correctly. Or maybe your excessive mileage over powered to your final result of injury. Maybe it was a combination of both form not perfect, and excessive mileage too quickly.

At any rate injuries are good lessons to be learned. It is a great time to step back, and evaluate the situation. Form a differnt plan if you choose to start running more in the future. The body was certainly designed to run. We just have to evolve our running in a natural manner not a rushed manner. I've learned these lessons as well with injuries, but very minor injuries. BF running teaches us a lot about ourselves if we listen. The most minor soreness is our body communicating to us. The real art in this is learning how to read the bodies sometimes subtle messages to us.
 
#26
update:It has been exactly

update:

It has been exactly three weeks since the injury happened.

I have not done any running except of one (painful) 1 mile trail run 10 days after the injury which apparently only made things worse. :sad:

There is still the pain in that area (now almost constant), there is no way I could run on it right now and it hurts even when walking (especially down hill). The swelling got worse, my whole ankle is swollen now and there is a lot of fluid. I am slightly limping when walking because the whole ankle is really stiff.

I am icing it twice a day and wearing compression stocking.

Went to see the doc yesterday since it is not improving. He confirms there is a lot of swelling around the ankle which was not there initially and he locates "the spot" (a small lump) on my fibula which is still (after three weeks) really painful when pressed.

He eliminates the shin splint and now thinks it is probably a stress reaction. The plan is two more weeks with no running, R.I.C.E. and some pool activities. If it is not gone in two weeks, then getting MRI to find out what's actually going on inside. :cry:

Fingers crossed.
 
#27
while we might feel great

while we might feel great going out for a few miles, it's easy to hurt yourself when new to running. especially a forefoot landing. shoes have forced us to go heel first. the bones have grown stronger to deal with that. switching to a forefoot landing stresses the bones in a completely different manner. it takes a few months for the bones to adapt to new stresses and then about three years to calcify(harden).



i know how hard it is take it easy. i'm feeling some TOFP after my run this saturday with my new lunas. that kind of swelling and pain sounds to me, with my complete lack of clinical experience, as stress fracture or some micro fractures. bones are dynamic. they will heal if you give them time and they will grow stronger. just don't rush it.



mike
 
#28
migangelo wrote:I know how

migangelo said:
I know how hard it is take it easy. i'm feeling some TOFP after my run this saturday with my new lunas. that kind of swelling and pain sounds to me, with my complete lack of clinical experience, as stress fracture or some micro fractures. bones are dynamic. they will heal if you give them time and they will grow stronger. just don't rush it.
Click to expand...

Thanks Mike. The doctor now thinks it is a micro-fracture so I am treating it like that. It has been 4 weeks without running and I am going to give it two more just to make sure it is all perfectly healed. Then I will start running again, very slowly.
 
#29
Glad to hear you got things

Glad to hear you got things sorted out. Hope things go well during your future transition back to being a bf runner! And as others have said, thanks for sharing your experience with us. Knowledge is such a valuable thing, and sharing makes us all wiser. :)
 
#30
I am running again It has

I am running again :smile:

It has been over six weeks since the injury happened so I decided to slowly start running again.

I ran 2.5 miles last night on pavement, very slow run (10min/mile) and it felt good.

I still felt the spot on fibula when striking forefoot but midfoot strike was fine.

My next run (planning in two days) is going to be on a trail.

It feels so great to be able to run again :love:
 
#32
Welcome back, just don't get

Welcome back, just don't get too antsy to get back up to speed and distance too quickly. I was able to stretch a 6-week stress fracture recovery time into an impressive 14 weeks by doing just that. Take your time, and listen intently and immediately to the pain feedback you get.
 
#33
Phil Hart wrote:Welcome back,

Phil Hart said:
Welcome back, just don't get too antsy to get back up to speed and distance too quickly. I was able to stretch a 6-week stress fracture recovery time into an impressive 14 weeks by doing just that. Take your time, and listen intently and immediately to the pain feedback you get.
Click to expand...

Thanks Phil, so far it has been good, especially once I moved from pavement back to trails again a week ago I feel no pain/no soreness in that spot whatsoever.
 
#34
Following your lead here,

Following your lead here, Paraganek. Today was my first run after 10 weeks of rest from my stress fracture: 1.4 miles... on a dirt and gravel trail. My soles are still conditioned enough that I could probably comfortably do 4 miles on pavement which would be far too much of a temptation to resist and probably get me right back on the injured list. A mile-and-a-half was all I could handle on gravel, so I'll try to use this limitation to force a more gradual build up in mileage this season. No pain in my ankle during or immediately after the run. We'll see if this remains true after more time passes. 8)
 
#35
swoggis wrote:Following your

swoggis said:
Following your lead here, Paraganek. Today was my first run after 10 weeks of rest from my stress fracture: 1.4 miles... on a dirt and gravel trail. My soles are still conditioned enough that I could probably comfortably do 4 miles on pavement which would be far too much of a temptation to resist and probably get me right back on the injured list. A mile-and-a-half was all I could handle on gravel, so I'll try to use this limitation to force a more gradual build up in mileage this season. No pain in my ankle during or immediately after the run. We'll see if this remains true after more time passes. 8)
Click to expand...
Congratulations Swoggis and welcome back :party:

Are you doing any special exercises for the stiff ankles ?
 
#36
My PT showed me calf

My PT showed me calf stretches done with the sole of my foot on the wall (heel is touching the ground about 1 inch from bottom of wall). I am standing very close to wall and facing it squarely. I can hit both the gastroc (knee locked) and the soleus (knee bent) in this stretch with very little body weight on the leg; lets me completely relax the calf muscle and really feel the stretch. I also do the ankle mobilization with the elastic band that Leigh Boyle demos on athletestreatingathletes.com to try to squeeze the talus backwards in the joint and eke out a few more degrees of flexion in my left ankle.
 
#37
Well, here I am 7 weeks back

Well, here I am 7 weeks back into running. Gradually increased distance to 3.5 miles per run and run just twice a week. And now, I'm finding a sore spot on my fibula again; this time about 2cm closer to the ankle. I suspect the beginning of another stress fracture. I also suspect I've pushed my luck by training on pavement the last 2 weeks and running a 5k race yesterday.
sad_smile.gif




I think a week or two off from running is in order. As I've discovered in the other thread about taking video of one's running gait, just heeding the feedback from my body while running barefoot isn't enough to ensure that I have good (i.e. efficient and non-injurious) form. If I can't resolve this in the next month or two, I'm seriously considering ending this experiment (which started last March) and just going back to running shod, or if I can't stand that anymore either, finding a a different sport entirely. (Obviously at a bit of a low point right now..) During the years I ran 5k, 10k, and marathon in shoes, I'd never had injuries worse than mild soreness in my knees or low back.
 
#38
Swoggis,I am really sorry to

Swoggis,

I am really sorry to hear that.

Seems like my spot healed up just fine. No matter how hard I push on it now I do not feel any pain/soreness anymore and it actually seems to be much stronger compared to the other leg.

I am running every other day doing 15-20 miles a week on trails. The trails here are quite soft because they are really muddy most of the year.

My advice would be quit pavement and stay on trails as much as you can if you have that option around where you live.

Best of luck to you to overcome this annoying injury and Happy running !
 
#39
Swoggis, it can take a few

Swoggis,



it can take a few years for your bones to calcify. they adapt quickly but it sounds like your pushing beyond what they're ready for. take some rest and go even easier. no racing until you can safely do more than the distance you want to run. learn to run for life, not one race.

don't be afraid to get some shoes to help out with a little recovery run. i have huaraches that work great and some tg to go along with my vff. switching it up will help with muscle confusion and let you run a little more. just remember not to push through pain. if you can stop before it gets painful.



good luck,



Mike
 
#40
All of these posts are

All of these posts are interesting to read. I, too, am having some pain around my ankle, nothing in my shin at all and it seems the maximum I have been able to run without feeling pain is 3 1/2 miles. I must be rushing into the barefoot running (started with the Vibrams about 2 months ago with a couple of no shoes runs also). The past two days I've tried to run and now my hamstring is pulling. I'm really trying to keep good form, had a good run on Saturday and felt awesome, but haven't been able to run since. I'm not discouraged though, if I'm unable to run I just cross train with some spin classes or do the elliptical. I realize that I have to listen to my body during this transition to BF running and that it may take some time. Add in that I have Fibromyalgia and I really have to pay attention to the little aches and pains more than usual. Take your time healing, Para, it will happen.
 
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