UPDATE on my health woes...

Barefoot TJ

Barefoot TJ

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Mar 5, 2010
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#1
I can't believe it! I figured out (with JSchwab's help) why my PF was not healing with all the treatments I was constantly doing. It just kept getting worse and worse, and it didn't make any sense to me. This is not the way a "normal" human body is supposed to react to therapy.


I was in bed this morning about 4 a.m. (of course with my feet just aching and throbbing in pain) thinking about something JSchwab said about her taking antibiotics and how she felt she got better once she stopped taking them. I couldn't sleep. I kept thinking about how my PF really got worse after I started taking antibiotics! I started thinking I better get up and check when my last run was and when I started taking them to see if there was any correlation. I couldn't sleep! Thank you, J! Thank you for keeping me up and not letting me sleep! I CAN'T THANK YOU ENOUGH!


Now get this...


I got on my computer and checked my calendar to see when my appointment was for Rosacea (the reason why I was prescribed antobiotics--although Rosacea is not a bacaterial infection, dermatologists prescribe it for Rosacea--go figure!). Okay, it was August 31. So I checked my running log to see when my last run was (when I had said enough is enough, my PF is not getting better with barefoot running as it had in the past). It said September 21! I was onto something! So I starting searching the Internet frantically, and at first, there were no results that fit. I thought this really sucks. I have got to find out if antibiotics are the cause of what I am going through before my appointment with the orthopedic surgion today at 2 p.m.! Then I finally hit upon this site (www.heelspur.com), and looky what I found:


We did some research after a visitor emailed to say the antibiotic ofloxacin (a fluoroquinolone or quinolone) had caused her plantar fasciitis. These compounds are known to cause serious problems in tendons (especially the Achilles tendon) and therefore could easily be a cause of plantar fasciitis. Plantar fasciitis and Achilles tendonitis are often caused by tight calf muscles and activities that increase tension in the calf muscles. The plantar fascia itself at the heel could be considered a tendon. Fasciae envelope and invest muscle and are given the new name "tendon" as they come together at the ends of muscle and connect to bone. Patients are 4 times more like to get tendon rupture when taking a quinolone antibiotic. They are 28 times more likely for it to happen if they are > 60 years old and taking specifically ofloxacin. Anyone taking a quinolone and beginning an aggressive stretching program for plantar fasciitis should be very concerned about getting achilles tendonitis or rupture if not making their plantar fasciitis much worse. Stretching the calf muscles is very unusual behavior for the general population. Maybe only 1 in 20 people do it at the level that is generally recommended for plantar fasciitis. Night splints make the situation even worse. All this applies even more to those who are active in a job or sport that uses the calf muscles (especially men > 30) in sudden bursts of running, jumping, or doing squats. Ciprofloxacin and norfloxacin are similar compounds which are also implicated. If these pills weaken the plantar fascia tissue, they may not only cause the condition or make it worse, but they may also decrease the pain by letting the tissue tear and thereby release tension as in plantar fascia release surgery. Dr Z in our message board reported that he had two PF patients get better after taking one of these pills. Email me at [email protected] if you have taken one of these pills and have also had heel pain before or after take it and if you think it made any difference to your heel pain.


I can't freakin' believe it! Of course, I took my last dose last night. I emailed the guy who authored the information to see what my prognosis is now that I have stopped taking the antiobiotics.


Now I'm off to research how to detox the body.
 
#3
ho-ly sh*t!! Hoping for a

ho-ly sh*t!! Hoping for a successful detox, what happens now with NOT taking the antibiotics for the Rosacea...will you have to look into other options? Thank goodness for J and her antibiotic troubles:p Oh the sacrifices we make for others LOL Really though, imagine if we didn't have this connection with others what world of hurt you'd be in never knowing that antibiotics could affect your therapy in this way. Crazy!

Hope this is your answer TJ!
 
#4
 TJ,Were you taking

TJ,

Were you taking a fluoroquinolone for rosacea? That is usually not the recommended treatment (http://www.internationalrosaceafoundation.org/antibiotics.php4). I'd be surprised if it had been prescribed to a runner for long term use because of the tendon issues you mention.

The fluoros are the only oral antibiotic class that have a risk for tendon injury, so if you were taking one of the more commonly prescribed antibiotics for rosacea I would not think that is the culprit in your PF issues. Is it helping your rosacea? Antibiotics do reek havoc on the GI system and I'm a big fan of probiotics or just good old active culture yogurt when taking antibiotics.

I'm sorry you are having such a continuing problem with your PF!

David
 
#5
 I had some side effects from

I had some side effects from the antibiotics for my rosacea, too (doxycycline). I decided that my vanity wasn't worth the risks, and go on with my red face. I hope you detox quickly and start getting better asap.
 
#6
Thank you for the link and

Thank you for the link and your support, David. This is what I was taking: GENERIC NAME: MINOCYCLINE - ORAL (min-oh-SYE-kleen) - BRAND NAME/S: Dynacin, Minocin. I'm pretty sure it was the antibiotics that did this, because I can remember missing doses and feeling better, and I can remember feeling better at the mid-point of the day, since I took them one in the morning and one before bed. It's just too bad this is all hindsight. Eventually, stretching made it worse, my little blue knubby ball made it worse, my night splints made it worse, just like the article said. This is not characteristic of normal therapy, to get worse.

I wish the PA would have asked me if I was a runner. I will be sure she knows now though!

My stomach and digestive tract are doing just fine. I wish they would have rebelled immediately, and this would never have happened.

What a coincidence you mention vanity, Mrs. Deplume. I was just talking to my friend this morning around 7 a.m. Our kids take the school bus together, so I knew she would be available to take an earful. Anwho, as I was telling her what I had discovered, I had an epiphany. I said, "Oh I get it. God you're teaching me a lesson. You've taken running from me to teach me that there are more important things in life than vanity. I am so vain."

Thanks, Zum. I thought the same exact thing. What condition would I be in if there were no Internet? It frightens me to think of it. The Internet really helps so many people.

Now I'm wondering...does the orthopedic surgeon I am going to see this afternoon know anything about PF worsening due to anitbiotics? Should I wait to see how she handles me before I spring it on her?
 
#7
David, I read the article in

David, I read the article in the link. My dermatologist is the one who told me that roasacea is not caused by bacteria. I have read reports stating the same. So now I'm left to wonder.


Here's what the link you provided says about the drug I "was" taking, as of last night. There's not where in this info (or the insert I received with my prescription) that says runners shouldn't take it or that the side effects could cause this problem, but it most certainly should. But I also noted another thing. I have an allergey to Sulfa. Is Sulfa and Sulfite related? See yellow below.

Minocycline (Oral)

Treats infections that are caused by bacteria. Belongs to a class of drugs called tetracycline antibiotics. Sold under the Brand Name/s:

  • Minocin® (Oral)
  • Dynacin®

You should not use this medicine if you have ever had an allergic reaction to any tetracycline medicine or if you have sulfite sensitivity. Do not give this medicine to children under 8 years old because it can permanently change tooth color. You should not use this medicine if you are pregnant or breastfeeding. Ask your doctor or pharmacist before using any other medicine, including over-the-counter medicines, vitamins, and herbal products. Make sure your doctor knows if you are taking any other antibiotics, or blood thinners like Coumadin®. You should not use antacids or iron supplements while you are taking minocycline. Birth control pills may not work while you are taking minocycline. You may need to use other forms of birth control while you are taking this medicine. If you have questions about this, ask your doctor, nurse, or pharmacist. Before having any surgery or procedures that require general anesthesia, tell the doctor in charge that you are taking this medicine.


Warnings:

  • Check with your doctor before taking this medicine if you have kidney disease or liver disease.
  • If you are pregnant or breastfeeding, talk to your doctor before taking this medicine.
  • This medicine may make you dizzy or lightheaded. Avoid driving a car or using machinery until you know how this medicine will affect you.
  • This medicine may cause your skin to be more sensitive to sunlight. Your doctor may tell you to avoid direct sunlight and not to use tanning beds. If your skin becomes sunburned, you may need to stop taking this medicine.

Side effects:
Call your doctor right away if you have any of these side effects:

  • Allergic reaction: Itching or hives, swelling in face or hands, swelling or tingling in the mouth or throat, tightness in chest, trouble breathing
  • Headache or blurred vision
  • Sore throat, heartburn, or pain behind your breastbone
  • Severe skin rash or sores
  • Stomach pain (severe)

If you have problems with these less serious side effects, talk with your doctor:

  • Dizziness or lightheadedness
  • Nausea, vomiting, or diarrhea
  • Problems with hearing
  • Skin rash
 
#9
That kinda sounded

That kinda sounded interventionie-like.
 
#10
Wow, TJ.  I hate that doctors

Wow, TJ. I hate that doctors hate it when we "play doctor", but sometimes they force us to! I hope the answers to your questions are just what you need to begin healing. You sure have had a rough time and I, for one, think you deserve a break!
 
#11
I'd tell the ortho up-front

I'd tell the ortho up-front what you just found out. If you tell him/her later, it may conflict with their diagnosis, and put them in a situation where they feel they have to defend their recommendation.

And remember "He who is good with a hammer, tends to think everything is a nail". Don't know who originally said it, I "borrowed" it from Covey. But you are meeting with someone who makes their living operating on people. Just sayin...

Let us know how it goes...
 
#12
Wow, who knew?!  Thanks to

Wow, who knew?! Thanks to you & JSchwab for sharing this information. Hope you can start to heal now that the meds are finished!
 
#13
Barefoot TJ wrote:I said, "Oh

Barefoot TJ said:
I said, "Oh I get it. God you're teaching me a lesson. You've taken running from me to teach me that there are more important things in life than vanity. I am so vain."
Click to expand...

Or, maybe God wanted you to have the time to get this site up and running.
 
#14
TJ,A year and a half ago one

TJ,

A year and a half ago one of my front desk ladies who is 10 years older than me and overweight flexed her foot while sleeping and tore her achilles. I sent her to my podiatrist/buddy and he booted her for months for the partial tear.

Knowing she had recently been on several courses of antibiotics. I asked him about that relationship which I had already heard of, and he concurred.

I have just sent a text to him detailing your case, and when he gets a chance probably tonight I will relay what he has to say to you.
 
#15
O.K. TJ, just got off the

O.K. TJ, just got off the phone with the podiatrist.

"Our" mutual patient had been taking Ciprofloxacin, and it probably was the culprit.

But, only the quinalones are suspect.

In the case of your antibiotics, no reason to think it is related.

Probably it was the heel walking after cryo surgery as you had assumed all along.

You are going to heal up, it will just take time.

In hindsight, you should have come to Grand Rapids this past May and skipped the cryo!
 
#16
Ah, you crack me up, Board! 

Ah, you crack me up, Board! I feel so much better now. Yea, right.

If my memory serves me correctly, why would I have a couple of days in between where there was no pain, which seemed to coincide with my missing dosages?

Ram, I have often wondered the same thing. I am but a tool. A very damaged tool, but a tool none the less.

Miker, I did tell the doctor what I had found (since I had not heard any of your opions prior to my appt.), and she and her PT both said there is no way to know for sure if they could be causing this problem. On a side note, It does contain sulfa, and I am allergic to sulfa, so that may be the connection. Regardless, I have stopped taking it, although I have several doses left, and I think a whole new refill...trash. Now it's a waiting game. I'll let you know.
 
#17
Barefoot TJ wrote:If my

Barefoot TJ said:
If my memory serves me correctly, why would I have a couple of days in between where there was no pain, which seemed to coincide with my missing dosages?
Click to expand...



The tears related to the quinalone antibiotics typicaly occur 3-4 months after the 10 days of dosing.

Your lack of symptoms during the missed dose days has to be just coincedence.

Besides, wrong antibiotic anyways.

It had to be the trauma from altered gait during cryo recovery as you had suspected all along.
 
#18
Just thinking...Why does

Just thinking...

Why does stretching my calves cause the PF to worsen, instead of help it?

Why does rolling my calves and hamstrings cause the PF to worsen, instead of help it?

Why does stretching my plantar fascia cause the PF to worsen, instead of help it?

Why does using my knubby frozen thingy cause the PF to worsen, instead of help it?

Why does my night splints cause the PF to worsen, instead of help it?

Why does taping cause the PF to worsen, instead of help it?

Why have I also developed Achilles pain?

Here's the kicker! I've been sitting around on my ass, since September 21, only moving to feed my children in the kitchen, pack lunch in the kitchen, walk from my house to my driveway to get in the car to drop off and pick up one of my kids at the preschool's car line. Literally, no house work, no yard work, no nothing, and yet I deteriorate every day? The pain has "increased" severely. With that much rest and therapy, you would think I would have begun to heal a long time ago, not go the other way.
 
#19
Keeping in mind that unless

Keeping in mind that unless you were to consult a neurosurgeon or ophthamologist you could not get any further away distance-wise from a heel pain expert than I am,

consider the following:

IF your pain was the result of heel walking during cryo surgery recovery, it is localized trauma to that area of the PF as well as other structures in the heel region that is causing the pain.

Typical PF presents as heel pain, yet is not inflamation at the heel, but rather a tight inflamed plantar fascia along it's full length. Stretching, night splints, massage, etc., i.e. the typical pf remedies would not only be useless, but could in fact FURTHER agrevate the localized trauma at the heel area.

Possibly total rest w/o stretching would help.

An inflamed tight PF tugging on it's attachment at the heel is the classic PF heel pain, yours might be just heel/achilles pain w/o a tight stretched pf.

Try rest , ice, and NSAIDS without the splint, massage, or stretching.

It could'nt hoyt!

Oh yes, and now that it's mid October.....chicken soup as well.
 
#20
One more thing I learned

One more thing I learned today unrelated to your current problem but interesting non-the-less:

Current thinking in podatiric circles regarding surgery for heel spurs includes the concept of releasing tension in the PF surgically while leaving the actual spurring in ther heel bone alone!

In other words, artificial lengthening of the pf relieves the pain even though the bony growth at the heel bone is allowed to remain.

This concept shows that it's the PFasciitis itself, not the resultant bone spurring that causes the discomfort.

In your case TJ, you probably have neither a tight PF nor spurring, just a localised trauma to the PF and other structures at the heel region that will heal given time and rest.

Interesting about the heel spurs though!

Do you know what exactly the surgeon did in Victor's case?
 
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