Altra Superior

There is more toe spring in the Superior but not really in the 1.5. It's less of a toe spring so much as an undercutting of the toe thickness to allow the foot a smoother roll at toe off. I'm really surprised that you felt the 1.5 was narrow in the toes...that must be one wide foot you're working with.
 
I am really starting to like mine, I just wish I would have gotten a size larger. I have 11 in the Lone Peak and the Samson and they fit fine. The Superior is a little tight with all the inserts in, but I haven't had a need for the rock plate and will soon be taking out the insole. Note though, still very limited running miles in them. A little toe spring, yes, but not noticeable out on the trail, in fact, I prefer a little because I have problems with the toe box fabric creasing and rubbing on the tops of my toes with all shoes. The Superiors seem to do this less.
 
I think I want to move from the lone peaks to the superiors. The toe bumper on the peaks was killing me on the downhills in my race today. My calves were killing on the climbs, but that was lack of preparation and training, lol! I like the looks of the superior's upper, from a comfort perspective.

Though, I may go with a 4mm drop shoe like the mt110. It fits my foot shape really. REALLY well, so I am torn, since i don't have funds for both...
 
There is more toe spring in the Superior but not really in the 1.5. It's less of a toe spring so much as an undercutting of the toe thickness to allow the foot a smoother roll at toe off. I'm really surprised that you felt the 1.5 was narrow in the toes...that must be one wide foot you're working with.

I wonder if the toe spring would soften up if the rock plate is removed. Only briefly tried the Superior with the rock plate intact because I was able to buy a back up pair of Lone Peaks that visit at a great price.

The undercutting of toe thickness of the 1.5 explains a 2nd reason the 1.5 didn't work out because I can't toe off like most folks do. Feet are rather screwed up plus are wide,thick with several bony lumps but narrow heels so Lone Peaks are a good fit.
 
I am really starting to like mine, I just wish I would have gotten a size larger. I have 11 in the Lone Peak and the Samson and they fit fine. The Superior is a little tight with all the inserts in, but I haven't had a need for the rock plate and will soon be taking out the insole. Note though, still very limited running miles in them. A little toe spring, yes, but not noticeable out on the trail, in fact, I prefer a little because I have problems with the toe box fabric creasing and rubbing on the tops of my toes with all shoes. The Superiors seem to do this less.
Hey Rick, just curious how you like the Samsons? I am getting a pair because I had to return the Adams because they were just a touch to short lengthwise and I think going a size bigger I will really need the laces to get the fit right at the bigger size lengthwise.
 
Lomad I would recommend going up a half size in the Superior if you do. I personally like the fit of the Superior better than the NB's but that's a foot shape thing for me.

Badtoes the shoe should be more flexible with the rock plate out. Mine are noticeably more flexible with it out so I'm assuming all pairs would be that way. I've also noticed that you have to get them in the right size. My first pair was my usual size and they were too small so my toes were way up at the end of the toe box. That put me more up in the toe spring. Altra said the shoe was running about a half size short in the men's so I went up and that made them perfect. Little notice of the toe spring and all the parts of my foot were in the right parts of the shoe.
 
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Hey Rick, just curious how you like the Samsons? I am getting a pair because I had to return the Adams because they were just a touch to short lengthwise and I think going a size bigger I will really need the laces to get the fit right at the bigger size lengthwise.

Nick, I mostly wear mine casually when I need to slip something on quick. I like them, but the few runs I have tried in them I found the sole a little stiff (we sure get spoiled being barefoot), and the toe box is a little flat and that bothers my hammer toe some even with the insole out. On the plus side, I do like how light they are. I know your feet are wide, I find these are the most narrow of the Altra shoes that I have. If you find them in a store, give them a try.
 
I think I want to move from the lone peaks to the superiors. The toe bumper on the peaks was killing me on the downhills in my race today. My calves were killing on the climbs, but that was lack of preparation and training, lol! I like the looks of the superior's upper, from a comfort perspective.

Though, I may go with a 4mm drop shoe like the mt110. It fits my foot shape really. REALLY well, so I am torn, since i don't have funds for both...

This could be quite a battle between the superior and the mt110. I have both and I am really liking the 110, but it is the winter model and will soon be to hot to run in.
 
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Nick, I mostly wear mine casually when I need to slip something on quick. I like them, but the few runs I have tried in them I found the sole a little stiff (we sure get spoiled being barefoot), and the toe box is a little flat and that bothers my hammer toe some even with the insole out. On the plus side, I do like how light they are. I know your feet are wide, I find these are the most narrow of the Altra shoes that I have. If you find them in a store, give them a try.
I was told by the lady on the phone that they are on the same last as the Adams. Is this not the case? They are not in any stores locally so that is why I have to order them. Nobody here carries the Adam anymore either. Everybody here is quitting selling the really minimal shoes and switching to the cushioned minimal drop shoes. I used to love that we had so many minshoes to chose from here but now it's really hard to find "barefoot style" shoes (I hate that term). Even vff's are getting harder to come by here unless you go to REI. Anyhow, the Adam just isn't going to work for me because of the velcro straps and from what I understood the main differences with the samson is that it is a couple mm thicker (not a deal breaker for me) and has laces and looks more like a normal shoe.
 
I was told by the lady on the phone that they are on the same last as the Adams. Is this not the case? They are not in any stores locally so that is why I have to order them. Nobody here carries the Adam anymore either. Everybody here is quitting selling the really minimal shoes and switching to the cushioned minimal drop shoes. I used to love that we had so many minshoes to chose from here but now it's really hard to find "barefoot style" shoes (I hate that term). Even vff's are getting harder to come by here unless you go to REI. Anyhow, the Adam just isn't going to work for me because of the velcro straps and from what I understood the main differences with the samson is that it is a couple mm thicker (not a deal breaker for me) and has laces and looks more like a normal shoe.

it is the exact same last as the Adam. The upper isn't stretchy like the Adam though so in the toe box it has a narrower feel. It's not narrower but it doesn't give as much because it's just a mesh upper. It is 3.5mm thicker than the Adam so it's 7mm but feels much thinner than that because it's a blown rubber sole, same as Adam, with a thin layer of EVA on top. If it was just EVA it would be a much more muted shoe. I agree it's sad that the really minimal shoe market is seeing a huge decline but it makes sense because no one is buying them. The purists try to go bare too much and then forced companies to make the shoes to be extremely durable so they last forever. Those two things combine to make the turn over really poor. The mainstream jumped in but they mostly jumped in wrong and uneducated so they either got hurt, sore, discouraged, or just plain didn't like it so they either went back to their old style shoes or to something with lower drop but more cushion.
 
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Makes sense what Jimmy just said. The non-stretchy upper must give the Sampson a narrower feel. I also agree with Jimmy's comments about the market. I go barefoot when I can, use sandals when the conditions get a little rough, and go to a big shoe (superior, MT110, lone peaks) when I am on a rough trail and want distance. I just quit looking at all of the VFF's, Adams, Vapor Gloves, etc., no need for them.
 
I would have lots of use for these types of shoes, unfortunately shoes like Merrells barefoot lineup are too narrow, and vff's are hard to find that fit me close to properly. The Adams were too tight on the pinky toe (due to velcro strap) and my toenail kept hanging up on the bumper guard on the front and hitting the front of the toebox. Hopefully the Samsons are just what I am looking for.

Oh and the couple of stores I talked to here that used to carry the ultra minshoes that don't anymore said they stopped carrying them because too many people were getting hurt and bringing them back, and just too many returns in general. I think it was just they never really liked them in the first place and didn't bother educating people about them. I've heard these stores spew a lot of hate towards ultra minshoes (much better term than barefoot shoes I think) and never explain to people how you have to transition into shoes like that. They would also steer people away from those shoes. You wanna know why shoes like that got hurt on sales, that's probably a big reason why. I'm sure these couple stores here in OR are not the only ones nationwide who did that.
 
Ya agreed flammee, unfortunately all the shoe stores call shoes that are zero or minimal drop with 17-20+mm of sole minimalist shoes. They call the ultra minshoes barefoot shoes, which is a horrible term. I think ultra minshoes is a better term than barefoot shoes is what I was getting at.
 
I wanted to make another report, I've been wearing them now since October, I think I likely have the first production line as I got them the week they were released. I've put roughly 400 miles of technical trails on them. They are ripping more noticeably in the same are on both sides of the shoes, to the point where I think I will have to replace them. The area affected is where the uppers attach to the sole right around the ball of my foot. The sole and everything else is still in great shape so I will use them on shorter runs. I'm replacing because I don't want it to rip more during a race. I'll post a pic later if anyone is interested. They still offer great protection on the trail and overall I am very happy with them. Oddly enough I am kind of wishing they made a dropped trail version of the superior.

Just out of curiosity how long do other trail shoes last people?
 

Yeah, I did, Abide.... BUT the womens version uses the same last as the mens version. Yes, I ordered the "womens" shoe. I bought a size 8 womens shoe - but it was the exact same product as the size 6 mens shoe, only it had "8W" written on the tongue, not "6M". I contacted altra and they confirmed that they did not have a separate last for womens Superiors. If they ever do make them with a womens last, I'll give them another go.

Women and men differ in their heel shape, overall. Put this text into Google Scholar "Gender differences in adult foot shape: implications for shoe design", and you'll get to a .pdf where you can read all about it.