Vibram's 2011 models... more thick soles?
- Thread starter Last Place Jason
- Start date
I argued this on the "other
I argued this on the "other forum" as well, but you can't blame Vibram for marketing to what they perceive as their largest market. And that's not people who currently use VFFs, because they are probably still using the same VFFs they bought in 2006. Their largest market are those who are new to minimalist running, because they don't have the shoe yet. And those people, if they were anything like me, are going to want more stuff on the shoes because they perceive that they need those things.
When I first looked at VFFs, I almost waited to buy until the Bikilas came out because they were supposed to be specifically for running. Of course they came out over a year later, so I'm glad I didn't wait. But I had no clue that you could successfully run barefoot or in a shoe like the KSO with no padding and no traction on the bottom.
I think once people have the shoes for a while, they take the typical progression of a VFF to barefooter. They will buy shoes with less and less "stuff" until they just wind up in something they scraped together from the hardware store.
If I was the CEO of Vibram, I would move in the same direction. It's not like barefooters are a really profitable market. We buy $6 pool shoes if we buy anything at all. I'm having a hard time pulling the trigger on some $30 ZEMs!
I argued this on the "other forum" as well, but you can't blame Vibram for marketing to what they perceive as their largest market. And that's not people who currently use VFFs, because they are probably still using the same VFFs they bought in 2006. Their largest market are those who are new to minimalist running, because they don't have the shoe yet. And those people, if they were anything like me, are going to want more stuff on the shoes because they perceive that they need those things.
When I first looked at VFFs, I almost waited to buy until the Bikilas came out because they were supposed to be specifically for running. Of course they came out over a year later, so I'm glad I didn't wait. But I had no clue that you could successfully run barefoot or in a shoe like the KSO with no padding and no traction on the bottom.
I think once people have the shoes for a while, they take the typical progression of a VFF to barefooter. They will buy shoes with less and less "stuff" until they just wind up in something they scraped together from the hardware store.
If I was the CEO of Vibram, I would move in the same direction. It's not like barefooters are a really profitable market. We buy $6 pool shoes if we buy anything at all. I'm having a hard time pulling the trigger on some $30 ZEMs!
why are we such a cheap
why are we such a cheap group of people? i'm kidding...sort of because i've become the same way. used to be a pair of $100 shoes didnt cause a blink but $100 minimal shoes make me debate for days or weeks. strange.
still i say hold off on the disapproval of the vffs until we know something. i imagine the lace up bikila will have all the same properties of the current one but the other two could be very minimal and have good science behind the toe pods. it's obvious that they offer nice traction in the bikila and the sole itself isnt that thick, it's the insole. i would imagine if the others dont have the insole they would feel much like what we're all used to.
there are a lot of degrees in minimal running and they dont all point to feeling as much like barefoot as possible. nothing wrong with a company opening its mind to some more degrees of minimal shoe options for those that want/need a little more to do it or feel comfortable doing it.
if anything i think having some check down options would send more people into the full on barefoot action.
why are we such a cheap group of people? i'm kidding...sort of because i've become the same way. used to be a pair of $100 shoes didnt cause a blink but $100 minimal shoes make me debate for days or weeks. strange.
still i say hold off on the disapproval of the vffs until we know something. i imagine the lace up bikila will have all the same properties of the current one but the other two could be very minimal and have good science behind the toe pods. it's obvious that they offer nice traction in the bikila and the sole itself isnt that thick, it's the insole. i would imagine if the others dont have the insole they would feel much like what we're all used to.
there are a lot of degrees in minimal running and they dont all point to feeling as much like barefoot as possible. nothing wrong with a company opening its mind to some more degrees of minimal shoe options for those that want/need a little more to do it or feel comfortable doing it.
if anything i think having some check down options would send more people into the full on barefoot action.
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I just sayin' $$$$$$$$$$$$$
I think people have a hard
I think people have a hard time paying for minimalist shoes for precisely that reason, they are minimalist. What i mean by that is the word "minimalist" has quite a few connotations, many of them leading people to not want to pay much for a "minimal" shoe. You have to admit, there really isnt much (by way of materials) to minimalist shoes, although the thought process behind them is really quite ingenious. also, the kind of people who buy minimalist shoes, on average, dont like shoes anyway. so with that mindset it becomes very hard to pay for a product that you dont necessarily want.
Thats just my thought on the matter, i may be wrong.
I think people have a hard time paying for minimalist shoes for precisely that reason, they are minimalist. What i mean by that is the word "minimalist" has quite a few connotations, many of them leading people to not want to pay much for a "minimal" shoe. You have to admit, there really isnt much (by way of materials) to minimalist shoes, although the thought process behind them is really quite ingenious. also, the kind of people who buy minimalist shoes, on average, dont like shoes anyway. so with that mindset it becomes very hard to pay for a product that you dont necessarily want.
Thats just my thought on the matter, i may be wrong.
I agree with SayPay and
I agree with SayPay and Jimmy. The jury is out. I like the looks of them a lot better now than version 1. If they could use the original sole with these new uppers, that would be the key.
I just bought a pair of Bikilas and am having trouble running in them. I can't tell if I can run better in my Sprints over the Bikilas though, since I need to head back out in the Sprints and compare, but so far FOR ME, the Bikilas have failed.
The lace-up VFF isn't new. They have a version, but it can only be purchased in Europe.
And what's wrong with making money? There is a cheap alternative you can buy for $6- $8 at Wal-Mart if you don't want to spend the money to get these. God knows Wal-Mart could use the money.
I agree with SayPay and Jimmy. The jury is out. I like the looks of them a lot better now than version 1. If they could use the original sole with these new uppers, that would be the key.
I just bought a pair of Bikilas and am having trouble running in them. I can't tell if I can run better in my Sprints over the Bikilas though, since I need to head back out in the Sprints and compare, but so far FOR ME, the Bikilas have failed.
The lace-up VFF isn't new. They have a version, but it can only be purchased in Europe.
And what's wrong with making money? There is a cheap alternative you can buy for $6- $8 at Wal-Mart if you don't want to spend the money to get these. God knows Wal-Mart could use the money.
TJ I wonder if the tech
TJ I wonder if the tech behind the bikila is what's causing your problems? the pods on the sole are supposed to be placed to help disperse the body weight evenly through the metatarsals. for someone with your neuroma issues that could be counter intuitive. i dont know honestly. the bikilas have been great for me so i find it odd that they would be bad for someone based on my experiences with them. of course we are all very different
TJ I wonder if the tech behind the bikila is what's causing your problems? the pods on the sole are supposed to be placed to help disperse the body weight evenly through the metatarsals. for someone with your neuroma issues that could be counter intuitive. i dont know honestly. the bikilas have been great for me so i find it odd that they would be bad for someone based on my experiences with them. of course we are all very different
"Whatever happened to good
"Whatever happened to good old solid neutral colors?"
What, that's not fashion!
"Whatever happened to good old solid neutral colors?"
What, that's not fashion!
Mokie pointed out to me the
Mokie pointed out to me the other day at our Georgia meetup that I looked like I was heel striking in them. I do try to stay off the balls of my feet as much as possible because that's where the neuromas are, but when I run barefoot, I don't have heel issues. The other problem that happens with neuromas is that when the feet naturally swell, my toes expand as well, and I can feel the pressure on my toes probably much more so than someone who doesn't have nerve problems. Having my toes confined in individual compartments at this point isn't helping. I'm a mess.
Mokie pointed out to me the other day at our Georgia meetup that I looked like I was heel striking in them. I do try to stay off the balls of my feet as much as possible because that's where the neuromas are, but when I run barefoot, I don't have heel issues. The other problem that happens with neuromas is that when the feet naturally swell, my toes expand as well, and I can feel the pressure on my toes probably much more so than someone who doesn't have nerve problems. Having my toes confined in individual compartments at this point isn't helping. I'm a mess.
As long as they don't
As long as they don't discontinue the KSO, I have a hard time complaining too much about what else they do. I liked the idea J left in a blog comment about more color options.
BTW, I REALLY want a pair of the lace up VFFs (Speed, I think they're called). They're basically a lace up Bikila, but I don't want them for running, just as a causal shoe. I know they might not be the absolute most minimal shoe for casual wear, but they are still pretty **** minimal compared to most shoes, and they look so AWESOME! My sister and I were wishing a while back for a pair of VFFs colored like Chuck Taylor All Stars, and I think the Speed basically satisfies the same craving.
As long as they don't discontinue the KSO, I have a hard time complaining too much about what else they do. I liked the idea J left in a blog comment about more color options.
BTW, I REALLY want a pair of the lace up VFFs (Speed, I think they're called). They're basically a lace up Bikila, but I don't want them for running, just as a causal shoe. I know they might not be the absolute most minimal shoe for casual wear, but they are still pretty **** minimal compared to most shoes, and they look so AWESOME! My sister and I were wishing a while back for a pair of VFFs colored like Chuck Taylor All Stars, and I think the Speed basically satisfies the same craving.
it is but there are about
it is but there are about three or four dealers online that will ship to the u.s.
it is but there are about three or four dealers online that will ship to the u.s.
And the chances of your size
And the chances of your size being available at the precise moment you are shopping are?????????
:tongue:
And the chances of your size being available at the precise moment you are shopping are?????????
:tongue:
So, what you're saying is
So, what you're saying is that you will be in Europe, so you will be able to purchase things like the Speed and send them back to all your barefoot friends here in the States, right?
Maybe the BRS can create an "International Procurement Specialist" position. I think you would be a shoe-in for that. Wait.....do we have "shoe-ins" on this forum?
So, what you're saying is that you will be in Europe, so you will be able to purchase things like the Speed and send them back to all your barefoot friends here in the States, right?
Maybe the BRS can create an "International Procurement Specialist" position. I think you would be a shoe-in for that. Wait.....do we have "shoe-ins" on this forum?
Yes, good idea, Joe. Greg is
Yes, good idea, Joe. Greg is a shoe-in for sure. We'll "filter" the orders through the BRS site. Any takers?
Yes, good idea, Joe. Greg is a shoe-in for sure. We'll "filter" the orders through the BRS site. Any takers?
My Assignment over there is
My Assignment over there is still a few months off, but I think I'd be willing to ship a few products as long as it doesn't get out of hand.
My Assignment over there is still a few months off, but I think I'd be willing to ship a few products as long as it doesn't get out of hand.
