utterly vain post about ditching beer belly

#21
I try to eat healthy, which

I try to eat healthy, which is challenging and takes a lot of time, money, and effort.

Hanging out with my college age sons I've reverted back to an unhealthy diet of pizza, McDoubles, potato chips, and beer, but saved a lot of time and money in the process.

I have been counting my calories daily for decades, and find that for myself there is no difference in fat storage based on what foods I eat, but a definite difference based on increases or decreases in calories.

I've read numerous scientific studies that say I'm not an exception to any rule, just normal.

For health reasons, I wish I ate less animal fat and refined carbs though.



These pictures were taken four weeks ago after a year and a half of eating crap but sticking with the same calorie count as when I was eating right.

I'm sure I'm less healthy than I look, but my cholesterol numbers actually improved wuth the fast food diet!

My doc believes me, but we can't figuire out why. It's been duplicated in six month intervals, and my $ stretching time saving junk food diet has lowered my LDL and raised my HDL. Not sure if that translates to less arterial plaque though!



 
#22
If that were true we could

If that were true we could easily feed the world!No obese person eats a relativly low calorie diet.

That's one example of why this whole anti-refined carb/processed food craze is an overblown myth.

Here I totally disagree, more Calories / Less work = Fat is the myth that has been around too long. There are way too many studies that validate raising insulin levels increase fat storage. Heck, just look at a diabetic, if they don't get insulin they become emaciated. Insulin allows them to store and use fuel. High insulin leads to massive weight gain, that is a known fact in medicine, it just isn't tied to obesity. There are studies with mice and rats that show healthy rats eating a controlled diet suddenly gain weight when insulin levels increase while maintaining workload and caloric intake.

Your statement “If that were true we could easily feed the world!,” Fat/obese does not equal well Nourished. You can be fat and starving as has been shown in many cases in low income, poverty stricken countries. There are plenty of fat obese people starving. Ya, it tends to boggle the mind.

Obviously there are as many marketed beliefs around junk food and dieting as there are around high heal support running shoes.
 
#23
LavaRunner wrote:If that were

LavaRunner said:
If that were true we could easily feed the world!No obese person eats a relativly low calorie diet.

That's one example of why this whole anti-refined carb/processed food craze is an overblown myth.





Here I totally disagree, more Calories / Less work = Fat is the myth that has been around too long. There are way too many studies that validate raising insulin levels increase fat storage. Heck, just look at a diabetic, if they don't get insulin they become emaciated. Insulin allows them to store and use fuel. High insulin leads to massive weight gain, that is a known fact in medicine, it just isn't tied to obesity. There are studies with mice and rats that show healthy rats eating a controlled diet suddenly gain weight when insulin levels increase while maintaining workload and caloric intake.

Your statement “If that were true we could easily feed the world!,” Fat/obese does not equal well Nourished. You can be fat and starving as has been shown in many cases in low income, poverty stricken countries. There are plenty of fat obese people starving. Ya, it tends to boggle the mind.

Obviously there are as many marketed beliefs around junk food and dieting as there are around high heal support running shoes.
Click to expand...
I'm glad you brought up the insulin studies with rats and mice. I had forgotten about those. It's impossible to store fat without insulin.
 
#24
There's a middle ground

There's a middle ground between Matt and Longboard's position...



Yes, it's a matter of "calories in, calories out"... but...

The "quality" of one's diet plays two roles here. There are hormones that regulate fat storage and blood glucose, all of which impact on the feeling of fullness, and the messages to the brain that tell a person he or she needs to eat more. Secondly, the quality of one's diet plays a role in the "calories out" equation. Too few calories in, and an individual can feel too sluggish to work out. Yes, there are obese people that eat low calorie diets. They have no energy, so they sit there on the couch and barely move. They are fat an malnourished.

OP, you'll really have to see what works for you. I suspect that there is a fair amount of individual variation in terms of what diets work. But, very generally, the diets that involve "calorie counting" seem to work best for the most people.
 
#25
I agree with everything

I agree with everything SillyC says with the exception of the existance of obese people eating low calorie diets.

Sure they are malnourished and tired, expending little energy, but gaining weight on a low calorie diet?

Not sure what low calorie is defined as, but "normal" is considered 2000 per day.

I would assume "low" to mean below that.

Regardless of insulin levels etc., I find it hard to believe that there is an obese person consuming less than 2000 calories per day on a regular basis.
 
#26
Longboard - they are so

Longboard - they are so inactive that they are burning only ~ 800 calories a day. It is possible. When starved, a person's body can sometimes do anything to protect what fat is there, and may be unaware that the body has more than enough fat. I'm talking about being so fatigued that the brain tries to prevent any movements that aren't completely unnecessary. No stretching, no going across the room to get a sweater, no reaching to get a different remote. They'll blame themselves for being "lazy", but the truth is, they can't help it. It's a sad and painful existence.

Many effective diets for weight loss have the individual eat more frequently during the day than he or she may already be doing - this prevents rapid swings of hormones, and makes a person waaaay more comfortable. They'll feel less hunger and less fatigue.
 
#27
Longboard wrote:I agree with

Longboard said:
I agree with everything SillyC says with the exception of the existance of obese people eating low calorie diets.

Sure they are malnourished and tired, expending little energy, but gaining weight on a low calorie diet?

Not sure what low calorie is defined as, but "normal" is considered 2000 per day.

I would assume "low" to mean below that.

Regardless of insulin levels etc., I find it hard to believe that there is an obese person consuming less than 2000 calories per day on a regular basis.
Click to expand...



I know some obese people (even severely obese) who cannot lose unless they are eating less than 1000 calories a day - there are definitely those cases with really messed-up metabolisms. Nobody becomes 500 pounds without some kind of severe metabolic crap going on that most of us have no idea about. I am not usually a calorie-counter, but there have been times I have lost 3-4 pounds a week eating 3-4,000 calories a day and times when I have stayed very low on calories and gained a ton. The human body is just very complex. Most obese people are eating alot or alot of the wrong foods to begin with, but when they turn around and try to lose, it's much harder than it is for your average "stop drinking beer and eating ice cream" kind of dieter. Insulin is not the only hormone driving weight gain, either. When I was injured, my cortisol levels went sky-high and I gained 20 pounds within a very short period of time even while controlling my diet alot. I've lost that 20 pounds plus 5 more eating french fries every day plus way more calories, with almost no effort, simply because my body is not stressed anymore.
 
#28
It's interesting how we look

It's interesting how we look differently at vertical growth and horizonal growth. We never say that a kid is growing tall, because they are eating a lot. Instead, we say that they are growing tall (growth hormones), which makes them eat a lot. In terms of vertical growth, the hormones drive the process, and appetite and food intake adjust accordingly.
 
#29
 As the husband of the most

As the husband of the most incredible woman in the world, who's always struggled with her weight, and spent most of her life obese...I can attest to the metabolic issues body chemistry has on one's ability to "loose" or "gain" weight. She has a thyroid problem which slows down her metabolism (but the medicine makes her more ill), had malaria as a child (parents were teachers in Africa for a while), her "natural" metabolic rate is, according to our doctor "Incredibly efficient"...meaning she will out live all of us in famine times...what it means for her now though, is that she has to excersise to excess and eat next to nothing for every single pound she looses, and as soon as she stops, it comes back....add any stress to the equation, and you get an almost impossible situation. It's also compounded by spending 2 years in a wheel chair after being involved in a fatal car accident that has left both knees almost shot, and tons of hardware in her right femur, so finding "do-able" excersise is difficult. Inspite of her weight, being post-menopasal, and 50 years old, she is in really good shape, muscles and bones are strong, heart is very healthy, and her cholestoral levels are right where they should be. Her blood pressure is good too. The idea that a fat person is unhealthy, lazy, undisciplined, over-eater, is not true for quite a few people...obviously it is true for some people, and not all those people who are unhealthy, lazy, undisciplined, and over eaters, are fat.

She loves rowing, one of the few things she can do...but even when/if she gets her weight back down again, at 5-10 she will not likely go under 170.

According to BMI standards, my 155-160 (depending on how much I'm running in any given month) at 5'8 is borderline overweight, and there is not that much fat on me...those standards do not take into accurate account the muscle weight...and I can loose weight very easy if I want to, gaining is difficult for me though...I tried once to bulk up to 175 once, and I just couldn't eat enough to do it...maybe if I just ate and didn't work out (which I love to do) I could have gained, but I wouldn't have gained the kind of weight I wanted to :).

And LongBoard, I think your pictures might have made me just a little more gay...
 
#30
I've noticed a lot of the

I've noticed a lot of the older guys on these running forums lately talking about their beer bellies. Guys that run many miles per week, so it seems you're not alone. Have you considered varying your fitness pursuits?

@Longboard - from the photos, I'm guessing you lift weights also? That may be a big factor in your results...

A good weightlifting program will build bigger, stronger muscles....that increase in muscle mass should increase your resting metabolism, which will result in burning more calories. A quick search turned up this article on my point.

I'm a big fan of high intensity weight training (HIT), which advocates only one very hard but brief workout (approx 30 min) every 4 - 7 days. I'd be happy to point you to some resources if you're interested.

I'm a 33 yr old guy....I was a fairly muscular, lean 150+ lbs at about 5' 9". Through improved diet and increased cardio, I dropped to 146 lbs, which was not my intent. Unhappy at dropping below 150 lbs, I stepped up my weight training, and scaled back the cardio a bit.

I have since put that weight back as muscle, and then some...weighing in at 153 lbs this morning. My whole body shape/weight has shifted...I had to buy a new belt for my smaller waist, and my arms and upper body are thicker than ever.

"Beer Belly" is a bit of misnomer, especially if you're drinking the light domestics Longboard mentioned. A can of Miller Lite isn't very high in calorie, but the crap that you eat while you're drinking it probably is!
 
#31
 I'd rather forego the food

I'd rather forego the food and indulge in a REAL beer!! :-D
 
#32
 I'm with you Nate...real

I'm with you Nate...real beer for me also! Fortunatley, with my current lifestyle, It seems I can eat a ton AND drink REAL beer.

It's hard for me to gain weight too. But these intense workouts and proper eating are doing it! As others on here have mentioned, good high calorie foods, lots of carbs....

I've read several weight training books lately, but currently this one is my favorite, if you're interested in lifting for mass I highly recommend it.


The New High Intensity Training



Here's an excerpt from the book, to give you an idea what you're in for:

Barbell Curls the Arthur Jones Way

And if you think that sounds rough....wait until you try weighted negative only dips and chins...no to mention the little to no rest time allowed between exercises in your workout...
 
#33
"The idea that a fat person

"The idea that a fat person is unhealthy, lazy, undisciplined, over-eater, is not true for quite a few people...obviously it is true for some people, and not all those people who are unhealthy, lazy, undisciplined, and over eaters, are fat."



Very true, I am much more athletically disciplined than Capmikee, and just as food-disciplined (we both fast every day), but he weighs over 70 pounds less than me and has never really been very heavy. I have been more active than him almost our whole marriage eating similarly. And, yet, I have weighed up to 290 pounds during that time and he has never been more than 20 pounds overweight and that only lasted a short time. He is also prediabetic and I have healthy blood sugars. I think he would gladly trade his health issues for my girth if he could.
 
#34
 Thanks .  I'm not really

Thanks ;-). I'm not really into gaining at the moment...I'm actually interested to see how low I end up going as I continue to increase my milage...I don't do weights that much (except when I feel like it, because it can be fun--very rarely more than 15 min. 2x's a week)....but I do tons of full body stuff/body weight things (teaching kung fu and yoga does that to one ;-)...I have liked the 155 weight, it's a good speed/mass ratio for me and what I like to do...last time I was down under 150, I felt supper fast and light, but also a bit too "insubstantial" in my striking and kicking...but I wasn't running then (a couple of years ago)...I'll be interested if I drop to that naturally (by this, meaning no effort/intention to drop, but just as an effect of more miles), if I'll feel more grounded and rooted (where power comes from anyway, the legs) due to my running and barefooting in general, and if that is enough to offset the total mass loss.



Oh, yeah, I don't actually forego the food...it was just "if I had to choose scenario" ;-)....cheesy fresh-cut pub fries with a guiness makes nate a happy boy.
 
#35
NakedSoleNate wrote:And

NakedSoleNate said:
And LongBoard, I think your pictures might have made me just a little more gay...
Click to expand...



Before you get the urge to give up real beer for Schmitt's:

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/679770/

just take a quick glance back at last night's pic of MM after running a barefoot 5K back in the early 60's.

That'll snap you back to your senses!

 
#36
 :-D yeah...that did it!!

:-D yeah...that did it!! Please let me believe she ran that 5k without shoes and shirt!!
 
#37
She probably got away with

She probably got away with topless running. They obviously didn't use Bchips for timing, you can see that she still has a minimalist ankle strap on her left leg, proving that the Dtag or other ankle timing chip was around even in JFK's time.

Bchip would have been too restrictive even for her.
 
#38
As far as weight loss goes,

As far as weight loss goes, I've been a somewhat controlled experiement of one for the last 15 years.

I have a ritualistic practice of giving up "excess" calories every year for Lent. This means for the 6 weeks before Easter I closely monitor my calorie intake and output and strictly keep to a predetermined healthy daily limit for net calories. Except for the years I was pregnant, that limit is typically 1200 net calories which means about 1350 total calories on a "couch potato" sedentary kind of day and upwards of 2000 total calories on a "run 5 miles" active kind of day. I have been doing this faithfully every year since 1996 and have never exceeded my daily calorie limit during Lent.

In that time I have noted several things:

EVERY year that I have followed this Lenten practice I have lost weight during those 6 weeks. Each time, regardless of the type of diet I ate or my level of exercise, I lost about the same amount of weight and it came off in the same type of pattern.

- In the late 90s when I ate mostly fast food and Snack Wells I lost about 8 pounds.

- In the last several years eating a diet of primarily organic whole foods concentrating on fresh fruits, veggies, beans, whole grains and fish I lost about 8 pounds.

- The year I also gave up all processed sugar and flour for Lent and followed my usual calorie restriction, I lost about 8 pounds.

- The years I was an aerobics instructor leading 9+ aerobics classes a week, I lost about 8 pounds.

- The years I was a couch potato, I lost about 8 pounds.

- Last year, my first year as a runner, I lost about 8 pounds.

The pattern of weight loss is always the same for me, too. I drop 5-6 pounds in the first 3 weeks. My upper body measurements drop quickly during that time, but my lower body (I tend to store fat in my hips and thighs) is pretty stubborn and changes slowly. Then then next 2 weeks the scale holds steady for weight (plateau) but my % body fat measured by my scale and my lower body measurements drop. By Easter I have lost about 8 pounds and about 1-2 inches.

*****************

So, for me, CALORIES IN - CALORIES OUT is the master equation in regard to weight loss.

******************

There are, however, two important things that are strongly influenced by the type of diet I'm eating...

-the way I feel and

-the likelyhood of continuing / maintaining the weight loss.

During my Lenten calorie restriction in the years of fast and processed foods, I found that I was constantly hungry and never felt satisfied. I found it harder to continue with the reduced calorie intake after Lent those years (due to the hunger/satisfaction issue) and almost always regained some or all of the weight.

In more recent years I have found that eating a high fiber diet centered around whole foods means that I am almost never hungry during my Lenten calorie restriction. The food delights my senses and leaves me feeling very satisified. The downside is that it takes much more time and effort to regularly plan and prepare fresh, healthy meals. That is the primary challenge in continuing with it each year after Lent. The years when my personal schedule has been less hectic I have maintained the eating style and the weight loss. The years (like now) when things are more chaotic, I rely more on convenience foods after Lent (and I tend to drink more alcohol) so I regain the weight.

Do my diet choices impact my insulin and other hormone levels? Yes, there's no doubt in my mind that they do. Clearly, based on how I feel, a diet of processed foods makes me sluggish and hungry. A diet of whole foods makes me feel light and full of energy. Does that effect how my body stores fat? Maybe it does to some small extent, but not nearly as noticable as the effect of calories in - calories out is for me. For someone else, the hormonal difference might be more pronounced and a bigger influence in the weight loss equation. The only way to know what works for you is to try it and see.

Something else I've noticed that might be of interest to the OP...

My body tends to store fat in my hips and thighs (I'm a pear shape). It's the one place that I most want to lose fat but it is the LAST place to get smaller when I lose weight and the FIRST place to get bigger when I gain weight. (grrr) This is just a factor of my body type and shape. Even when I was at my lowest weight (size 2), my hips and thighs were still proportionally larger than the rest of my body and the primary place where my body stored its fat reserves.

What does that mean for the OP? If your body prefers to store fat in the belly, then it's possible that even if you reduce your weight quite a bit you may still perceive a bit of a beer belly. Your belly will get smaller as you lose weight, but proportionally, it may look the same. This may be part of the reason why it seems you can't get rid of it.



Peace,

Karen
 
#40
I can cultivate a belly along

I can cultivate a belly along with love handles in just six weeks. Done it many times.

Easy come, but much harder to get rid of.

Oh, I can get rid of the fat just as fast as it was put on,

but the 1200 KCAL/day diet is alot tougher to stick with than the 4200 one was!
 
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