Optimal strength training for runners

I think that I might try angling the dumbbells at 45 degrees, like this guy is doing.

Instead of cluttering up my garage. I should just ask my neighbor, who uses a tow strap to pull his truck. I caught a glimpse inside his garage, while jogging past one day. It looks like he already has the TRX system and a tractor tire. I'm sure there's a bench and some plates in there, too.

I'm sure my neighbor would be up for it, especially if I offer to paint his tire with some rad colors like the tire in the video.
 
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I think that I might try angling the dumbbells at 45 degrees, like this guy is doing.

Instead of cluttering up my garage. I should just ask my neighbor, who uses a tow strap to pull his truck. I caught a glimpse inside his garage, while jogging past one day. It looks like he already has the TRX system and a tractor tire. I'm sure there's a bench and some plates in there, too.

I'm sure my neighbor would be up for it, especially if I offer to paint his tire with some rad colors like the tire in the video.
Isn't "uncluttered garage" an oxymoron?

Seriously though, those db dls look good, but I think there will come a point where you can't go past a certain weight, but maybe not. And the getting-to-know-your-neighbor idea sounds pretty good. A lot of people thrive with training partners too.

That Scott Herman guy kind of annoys me, but his videos are well-done.
 
Yeah, I typically watch youtube without turning on the volume.

The dumbbell dead in the video looks remarkably similar to dumbbell squats. I guess that the slight difference in the positioning of the dumbbells affects the center of mass and how the muscles are worked. It actually does feel different doing it.
 
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OK, reacting to (1) how well the OH Presses went yesterday, and (2) how I was primed to do my DB Rows and Russian Twists before I got interrupted when everyone else woke up, and (3) how Power Cleans felt OK when I was cleaning the bar to do the OH Presses, I think I've settled the "where to put the squats" controversy that has been raging in my head since my new AtG PR on Thursday.

I'm going to keep the Squats on Wednesday (together with the bench press), which is too close to the Deadlifts, but, now that I'm placing more emphasis on Squats, and knowing how frequently the Friday workout can get displaced or reduced, as happened last week, I don't like the idea of moving Squats there, even though that would be optimal spacing from the DL day on Monday.

And I think DB Rows and OH Presses will combine much better (on Friday) than either does with Bench Presses (on Wednesday). Doing the two heavy 'middle' exercises--bench and row--on the same day seems like too much, as does doing the two main press exercises--bench and overhead--on the same day. So DB Rows and OH Presses will be the two prioritized lifts on Friday, and therefore each day will have two lifts I get in no matter what (marked in boldface down below), together with one other lift I'll try to get most days (marked in boldface and italics).

Deadlift, BB Row, Chinups
Squat, Bench, Dips
DB Row, OH Press, Russian Twist

I've also rethought how I've replaced pull-downs altogether with assisted chin-ups twice a week, and have decided a day of supine and neutral grip pull-downs, together with straight arm pull-downs and face pull(down)s, wouldn't be a bad idea, and so I'll do the assisted chin-ups just once a week.

Then I've tried to be a bit brutal about finally cutting down all the exercises in the other categories besides the bottom, middle, and top ST categories to just one exercise per category per workout, so that I have a better chance of actually getting around to them.

ST 3 -14.08.10.jpg

I'll do both the Deadlifts and Squats as 1RM>Back-off Sets most of the time, and the Bench Press too if my left shoulder doesn't complain. The BB Rows, Chin-ups, Power Cleans, and Dips will be 2-3 straight sets of 3-5 reps each, depending on the exercises. DB Rows and OH Presses I'll do as drop-sets, maybe something like 3x3 at two or three descending increments. Assistance and Rotational exercises will probably just be two sets a piece for the most part, although there are a lot of different types of pull-downs, so there'll be a lot more reps, which will be OK, since there will be more time without a heavy powerlifting lift--bench, squat, dl--scheduled for that day. Most of the Plyometrics, Stabilizer ('core') and Mobility exercises will also be about two sets. Hard to say how the Martial exercises will work. I'll probably just go at until I get tired or bored.

Yeah, I typically watch youtube without turning on the volume.

The dumbbell dead in the video looks remarkably similar to dumbbell squats. I guess that the slight difference in the positioning of the dumbbells affects the center of mass and how the muscles are worked. It actually does feel different doing it.

For me, the biggest difference between the squat and deadlift is the bar position, and whether you're starting with the concentric or eccentric phase of the lift. Since these differences don't come into play with dumbbells off the floor, could you maybe simply see which position(s) and/or angle(s) works best for you and forget about whether you're doing a squat or a deadlift?
 
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Justification for my habit of allowing "cheating" on some exercises, like the Bentover Dumbbell Row, the Yates BB Row, or even Biceps Curls when I occasionally do those: http://www.rdlfitness.com/cheating-lifting/

Once you shift from a body-part to full-body workout mentality, cheating kinda ceases to be an issue, as long as the form is still safe. It seems to me, for example, that it's much better to do biceps curls super heavy and allow oneself to swing with the hips and backs a bit. Comes a lot closer to the way you would heave something upwards in real life from a waist-high position. RDL claims that the target muscles actually work better when surrounding muscles are involved as well.
 
OK, more Abidean influence/channeling Dan John:

If I were to take a more systematic approach to rep counts, and add a little more volume, there are basically two possible ways I could install the 1RM>Backoff sets protocol. One is the incremental approach, with a 1RM followed by descending increments of 10-20 pounds, 1-2 reps each, ending with some kind of 3x3 or 3x5 sets across. Or the jump-down approach, where you go from 1RM straight down to 3x3 or 3x5 sets across.

If you use both 3x3 and 3x5 sets across, however, you then end up with a kind of 1/3/5 scheme, say 3x1/3x3/3x5, but with each different rep number representing an increment measured in totals of my 45- and 25-pound Olympic grip plates.

DL: 455, 405, 365, 315, 275, 225, 185, 135, 95

SQ: 455, 405, 365, 315, 275, 225, 185, 135, 95

BP: 455, 405, 365, 315, 275, 225, 185, 135, 95

So, using my current 1RM PRs as a reference, I could set up an "ish" scheme like this for the three big lifts:

DL: 3x1x365/355 1RM > 3x3x315 > 3x5x275

SQ: 3x1x275 1RM > 3x3x225 > 3x5x185

BP: 3x1x225 1RM > 3x3x185 > 3x5x135

That's 27 total reps. If that proves too ambitious, then I could do two sets of each rep number instead of three, for a total rep count of 18:

DL: 2x1x365/355 1RM > 2x3x315 > 2x5x275

SQ: 2x1x275 1RM > 2x3x225 > 2x5x185

BP: 2x1x225 1RM > 2x3x185 > 2x5x135

Once in a while I could go down in 10-pound increments instead of jumping down to the next grip plate level. In that case, I would either take off one or two 3- or 5-rep sets, or do them all anyways. Here's what a 20/21-rep count version of the incremental approach would look like:

DL: 1x1x355/345/335/325 > 2x3x315 > 2x5x275

SQ: 1x1x275/265/255/245/235 > 2x3x225 > 2x5x185

BP: 1x1x225/215/205/195 > 2x3x185 > 2x5x135

I think I like this last possibility best, and will try I next week, adjust actual reps perhaps if they proves too much or too little.

Thoughts?

I suspect as you noted the 27 lifts might be a little ambitious but it might work well for the bench and not so well for the deadlift or press. Who knows give it a try. Maybe you should do the drop sets at 80% and 75% of your 1RM I think the >85% for the first might be a little too heavy.

Something else I can usually make bigger jumps with squats and deadlifts than the other two so maybe alternate the drops with less weight for the uppers?

Wendler has somethng similar called joker sets you do the main work sets and then do three additional max sets for weight.

Its an interesting idea.
 
Ok so on Saturday it seemed like a good day to test out my maxes, I did all 4 and figured my press and squat were a bit hampered since they were the second lift.

DL - 165kgs (364)
Bench - 120kgs (265)
Squat - 125kgs (276)
Press - 70kgs (154)

Most of them were close to expected.

Yeah maybe we should start a training log thread, I have been using my other one a little but wouldn't mind starting a new one and leave this one for theory.
 
I suspect as you noted the 27 lifts might be a little ambitious but it might work well for the bench and not so well for the deadlift or press. Who knows give it a try. Maybe you should do the drop sets at 80% and 75% of your 1RM I think the >85% for the first might be a little too heavy.

Something else I can usually make bigger jumps with squats and deadlifts than the other two so maybe alternate the drops with less weight for the uppers?

Wendler has somethng similar called joker sets you do the main work sets and then do three additional max sets for weight.

Its an interesting idea.
Yeah, I was just establishing an abstract pattern. In practice it will probably be more like 12-20 reps. But it seems like a good idea to try to be a little more exact or disciplined in my workouts. Whether I'll be able to do that, I remain doubtful.

For me it's hard to think in terms of percentages, I usually go by plates, and which drops are most convenient or motivating. I do like the idea of 1/3/5 though. A three-rep set feels different from a five-rep set. So it would be nice to get a relative feel for 1-2RM sets, 2-4RM sets, and 4-6RMsets. Seems like if you can get those three different kinds of reps in, at least for the main lifts--deadlifts, squats, bench press--you're working the muscle pretty completely.

For the other exercises, like you say, it's hard to make big jumps. I think it's because (1) the weight is considerably less, and (2) it's the nature of the muscles worked. For rows and OH Presses, it seems to work best to do sets across or drop sets of 3-5 reps in 10-pound increments.

Joker sets sound intriguing. Once in a great while I've done something similar, where I finish up my sets, but feel like I still have too much left in the tank, and so go back up for sets of minimal reps but increased weight.
Ok so on Saturday it seemed like a good day to test out my maxes, I did all 4 and figured my press and squat were a bit hampered since they were the second lift.

DL - 165kgs (364)
Bench - 120kgs (265)
Squat - 125kgs (276)
Press - 70kgs (154)

Most of them were close to expected.

Yeah maybe we should start a training log thread, I have been using my other one a little but wouldn't mind starting a new one and leave this one for theory.

Those are pretty good maxes, especially on the presses, which seem relatively more advanced than your DL and squat. The good news for me is that I'm not as far behind you in the DL and Squat as I thought. The bad news is that you will still probably progress faster in the DL and SQ if you really put your mind to it, since your presses indicate you're capable of much more. But it's very cool to have a virtual training partner.

Anyway, I'll set up a thread in a little bit after I take care of a few things. I think instead of your 40-day MO of simply editing and adding to one comment, we should introduce a new comment for each workout or weekly routine, so that it's easier to follow the timeline. Then we can reserve this this thread for theory. It will be nice for me to document my attempts at achieving ExRx's 'advanced' levels of strength in basic lifts. Now that my DL and Squat have more or less caught up to my Bench, and are intermediate level, I feel super solid. It's exciting to be getting this strong, but I've got to work a little harder at making sure my running doesn't fall behind. I think for a middle-aged guy, running 5K at 8mm pace might be the equivalent of 'intermediate' level, and by that measure, my running is way behind my ST levels.
 
Wanted a change of pace, so I tried the stairmaster with the 60lb weight vest. It went well. Got the heart going at a nice rate. I'll add it to my list of possible activities. Looks like this is somewhat similar to a component in the CPAT firemen test.
 
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So, Abide's comment about an elevation training mask got me curious, and I read up a bit. One reviewer suggested nasal breathing instead of a mask. Makes sense that nasal breathing might be similar to using a mask to restrict air flow. I might give nasal breathing a try. Though I'm not opposed to opening my mouth for more air flow, such as during sprints. :D
http://www.outsideonline.com/fitnes...ld-I-Breathe-Through-My-Nose-or-My-Mouth.html
http://ericwongmma.com/mma-altitude-training-device-review/
 
So, Abide's comment about an elevation training mask got me curious, and I read up a bit. One reviewer suggested nasal breathing instead of a mask. Makes sense that nasal breathing might be similar to using a mask to restrict air flow. I might give nasal breathing a try. Though I'm not opposed to opening my mouth for more air flow, such as during sprints. :D
http://www.outsideonline.com/fitnes...ld-I-Breathe-Through-My-Nose-or-My-Mouth.html
http://ericwongmma.com/mma-altitude-training-device-review/

Yeah I am pretty sure nasal breathing basically forces you to run at a lower heart rate, so its virtually the same thing as low heart rate training. I've read a little about training your diapgrahm (altitude masks) but I'm not sure there really is any beneift to that. These masks do not simulate high elevation training or have the same benefits either, in fact its pretty common knowledge that training at altitude is a disadvantage unless you will be competing at altitude.

So the utility of nasal breathing is mainly to force you to do low heart rate training from my understanding. I suspect altitude masks might be useful for swimmers, but even that I am not sure.

Edit: just read that first article and it seems that I agree with it.
 
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My understand of elevation masks is that they have fittings that progressively limit air flow, possibly exercising the diaphragm. My face has a built-in ability to restrict air flow, the nostrils. I will say that nose breathing does appear to promote belly breathing. However, when I broke out into a full run, I did switch over to oronasal breathing. Running faster also seems to exercise the diaphragm just fine! :D
 
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Found it, it's that Cressey dude.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online...the_seven_habits_of_highly_defective_benchers

Habit #1: Always missing lifts
I remember back when we used to lift in high school, and we'd bench 4-5 days a week. At the time, I was about 4'11" with a giant afro (imagine Seth from Superbad) and a whopping 115lb. bench press -- but I (like all the guys around me), knew freakin' everything! Why?
Well, because I could just come in and bench and add five pounds every time I came in. It took me from a 45-pound bench press (yes, just the bar) to a grinder at 135 that made chicks want me and guys want to be me. Riiight.
Unfortunately, the road beyond 135 wasn't that simple. While I started to grasp that I couldn't hit a personal best every day, it took me quite a while to realize that even expecting new personal best each week wasn't reasonable. So, along the way, I missed lifts...a LOT of lifts.
In fact, I probably missed that 230 bench press at least 100 times before I got it. And, even then, I have to wonder if I had misloaded the bar or there had been a momentary lapse in gravity.
It wasn't until I stopped missing lifts that my progress really took off. Instead of getting stapled by 235, I hit multiple clean singles at 220 or got sets of 3-5 in at 85% or so. And, the more I succeeded with this mindset, the more I realized that there were times that I walked into the gym where I didn't even plan to come close to failing on a bench press.
Eventually, all these things "clicked," and I found myself writing for two days. The end result was a compilation of all these thoughts and strategies in an e-book, The Art of the Deload, that discusses planned reductions in training stress.

I don't know what do you guys think?
 
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Well, once again, let's keep in mind he's a powerlifting trainer, not a general strength trainer, so I feel like I can safely ignore some of the advice pertaining to meets, and with my humble goals, I'm not going to incorporate microcycles and other complications, and I would question how much lift variations really are necessary for someone like me.

But in general, it seems like everything else he says pretty much jibes with my approach, except I get the set/rep variety on most exercises within a single workout, using the 1/3/5 rep scheme, doing 1-3 sets of each rep count. My singles are, of course, not true 1RMs, but more like 90-95%. Everything else can be calculated in percentages of 1RM (http://exrx.net/Calculators/OneRepMax.html), but I prefer to either go by feel, or by convenient plate increments--usually 20/40/50-pound increments on the heavier lifts, although lately on the deadlift I've used 10-pound increments too.

As far as failing lifts go, like I said, I almost never do that. The last few weeks I've simple been trying to establish my true 1RM as a baseline (even so, I think I've only failed a lift 2-3 times). I will normally do singles at 90-95% or 20-30 pounds less than my true 1RM on the heavy lifts. For me, the main problem with failing a lift is that you've just wasted your time, because you still have to rest before you can do another set, but you didn't get the full benefit of a full ROM lift. I've always waited until my single becomes a double or starts to feel easy before bumping up the weight 10-20 pounds. It's a tried-and-true method for me.

As far as bar speed goes, different rep counts kind of take care of that on their own. Singles go up slower than triples, and five-rep sets have a faster bar speed than triples. I'm certainly not going to clutter my mind with speed days. I've got to keep things as simple as possible. I like my workouts and runs to be as mindless and relaxing as possible.

I also think that each exercise will vary slightly as to how a 1/3/5 rep count can be implemented. As I've said before, lighter exercises tend upwards to 6-8 reps in straight sets, but even for heavier lifts, there may be difference between, say, squats and deadlifts, and the percentage of 1RM at which a 3-rep back-off set feel comfortable. I think I'm finding my back-off sets for the squat tend to be a lower percentage of my single than my deadlifts, but that could change as my technique in the AtG squats improves.

I like the idea of doing groundwork with a weighted vest. Turkish get-ups always seemed kind of dumb to me, but just getting up off the floor without using your hands, elbows, or knees, as one of Sid's links suggests, could be quite challenging with an extra 60 pounds.

Still, I can't help but note the irony of getting a 60-pound vest when I want to lose 30-40 pounds.
 
Been working on more speed and intensity and not so much distance.

This looks interesting.
http://truttmd.com/how-high-can-you-raise-testosterone-naturally/
Yeah, I've been questioning the wisdom of long runs. An hour feels about optimal for me, but I miss the adventure of a good 10-14 mile run, and will still do them from time to time when my fitness is capable of it again.

Still, it's also easy to overtrain on speed and intensity. I'm trying to bring everything up slowly to see what a manageable balance will be.
 
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