i saw some big improvements in my maf zone also but not 3 mins. close i think and now i lost them with my racing and body weight training.
Maffetone Method...what's your experience with it?
- Thread starter Jonny00GT
- Start date
I know I've posted this before, but the heat is really making an impact on my speed... NOT that I'm fast or training for speed, but it's something to compare.
Start to 3.5 miles, sun was not up yet, 72 degrees and HR was 136 with a 9:30 pace. Sun came up and I started warming rapidly, HR to 140 and pace down to 10:15. Dramatic.
My RHR has dropped quite a bit as well from 58 to 50-52. Not bad for an old man...
Start to 3.5 miles, sun was not up yet, 72 degrees and HR was 136 with a 9:30 pace. Sun came up and I started warming rapidly, HR to 140 and pace down to 10:15. Dramatic.
My RHR has dropped quite a bit as well from 58 to 50-52. Not bad for an old man...
Core Temperature and the energy required by the body to keep it within its desired level of homeostasis has such a large influence on physical activity. Just look at it in an evolutionary perspective. No wonder we are predominately hairless now. There is also the factor with temp affecting enzyme activity and other metabolic functions.
I think I noticed this about the heat as well. I dont know if its covered in his book, I'm about half way through it. But I was making pretty good gains in speed up until the last time I ran, and it went back up. Two possibnle things, for one it was much warmer than usual (but not hugely different, like ~80 vs 70) but also over the last weekend we were at a resort and ate out every meal and I had plenty o bad food.
I've been pretty good at sticking to my maf hr lately (other than 1 5k race and a couple times 5-10 beats over running with a friend). In the 2 months I have been doing maf now I've dropped from 13+ min/mi down to around 10min/mi. I am plesently surprised to actually see this training work. I've also cut way down on processed carbs and sugar (but not eliminated them) except for this past weekend. But its still a fairly slow pace. I'm probably going to start back up doing an occasional speed workout and some more anerobic workouts, but I'll still try to do maf as much as I can.
I've been pretty good at sticking to my maf hr lately (other than 1 5k race and a couple times 5-10 beats over running with a friend). In the 2 months I have been doing maf now I've dropped from 13+ min/mi down to around 10min/mi. I am plesently surprised to actually see this training work. I've also cut way down on processed carbs and sugar (but not eliminated them) except for this past weekend. But its still a fairly slow pace. I'm probably going to start back up doing an occasional speed workout and some more anerobic workouts, but I'll still try to do maf as much as I can.
Hey I got a question for you Maf people. Have you seen an increase in your rate of improvement? In other words, are you sure you wouldn't have improved by the same amount over time anyway? Are you keeping all other factors constant, like distance, times per week, cross-training, and so on? I'm curious but skeptical, and also loath to run slower, but if it really works I'd be willing to give it a try.
Well the Maffetone method isnt just about changing one thing its a total way of living practically. So no I have not just isolated that one difference I have changed everything from diet and nutrition to distance and hr. But I would point out, if I were to 'improve by the same amount anyway' then why was I at a 13+ minute mile after years and years of running? That doesnt sound like I improved much at all prior to maffetone! Not that I am endorsing it, just making some points I suppose.
NickW
Guest
I got slower over 3 months of doing maf... I stayed the same for about a month and then I started to notice a drop in pace week by week. This is about the time you're supposed to start seeing gains with this method. I think you might have to be at a certain level when you start this method for it to really make a huge difference. I recently read an article that says you should change over to maf when you reach a point when you are not getting any better with high intensity training. According to the article the same goes with maf, you should change back to high intensity training when you hit the plateau with maf or start getting slower. I actually think this is a great method and I saw a huge improvement when switching back to high intensity training. Now, I'm still getting better so I haven't switched back to maf yet, but I will when I hit the plateau again.
Thanks for responding Tristan and Nick.
Tristan: I think with the wholesale set of changes, it would be hard to know for sure what has led you to improve. The problem for me is that I've never run consistently for more than two years at a time, but have always noticed improvement through these periods. At this point I've been running consistently for about a year and have been improving steadily, so perhaps I should only try the Maffetone method if I begin to stagnant, as you describe.
Nick: I've been reading a bit on how elite runners train, and what you're describing sounds a bit like that. They always mix it up between high volume and high intensity, either on a seasonal basis or a weekly/monthly one, according to their race schedule. I think for the time being I'm going to do one higher intensity run per week, and two long(ish) slow runs. I would be interested in reading that article though if it's not too much bother to pass along the link.
Tristan: I think with the wholesale set of changes, it would be hard to know for sure what has led you to improve. The problem for me is that I've never run consistently for more than two years at a time, but have always noticed improvement through these periods. At this point I've been running consistently for about a year and have been improving steadily, so perhaps I should only try the Maffetone method if I begin to stagnant, as you describe.
Nick: I've been reading a bit on how elite runners train, and what you're describing sounds a bit like that. They always mix it up between high volume and high intensity, either on a seasonal basis or a weekly/monthly one, according to their race schedule. I think for the time being I'm going to do one higher intensity run per week, and two long(ish) slow runs. I would be interested in reading that article though if it's not too much bother to pass along the link.
Lee,
From a sample of one, myself I have found the combination of barefoot running and MAF to be steadily improving my endurance and speed over the last 8 month or so. I went from a mile or so of heavy footed running and ankle pain to enjoying pain-free barefoot half marathon distances. I run mostly at a target heart rate of 135 at a slower pace of about 11:45 up to 13:00 after about 8 miles or so. When I have tested my pace I can run a mile in about 7:50 on sand and a 3 miler at about 8:20 pace. These are quite a bit faster than August last year. I used to mix it up with intervals but I sense I am making more progress with MAF. Anyway all the best.
NickW
Guest
Here you go Lee. Thank barefootmarc for this article as he had it in his blog. http://www.markallenonline.com/maoArticles.aspx?AID=2
I guess that's what I'm getting at--you have multiple variables there. I'm not taking a position, but I would like to hear from someone who noticed an increase in their improvement while holding everything constant except lowering their heart rate.
Each of the 3 or 4 speed zones offers some speed improvement, the Maff low heart rate part covers your very basic overall aerobic fitness...the faster speed zones offer improvement but peak sooner and increase the injury risk. I limit the faster speed running to 10 - 20 % of my total miles and sorta ration the fast miles as needed to keep my speed improving when building up my base miles. Running hills is always good but I run extra slow up the hills and fast down the hills...its like free speed training without spiking your heart rate.
Basic old runner saying is "run mostly slow sometimes fast" is still true, even the faster elite marathon runners run very slow on their everyday running compared to their race speeds.
BL, you are wise to question the effectiveness of MAF when others are making multiple changes. I have made no changes other than closely monitoring my HR during my runs.
It took a couple of months to start to see changes and I saw massive changes in pace vs. HR at about the 8-12 week point. Now that I am several months into the program, I have seen slow increases in pace vs. HR and not nearly as dramatic as it once was. Now, mainly I have seen my resting HR dropping a few beats per month.
Now that the temps are on the rise, my pace will slow to maintain HR. I'm not looking forward to having to start my runs at 0430, but, hey, what can you do? During last year's record heat in the Lonestar State, I was in the middle of training for MCM (as I will be this year also), and the first cold front that dropped the temps into the 60s resulted in a nearly 2:00 per mile reduction in mile times over a 10 mile run! The effect of heat is dramatic!
Keep pressing, folks!
It took a couple of months to start to see changes and I saw massive changes in pace vs. HR at about the 8-12 week point. Now that I am several months into the program, I have seen slow increases in pace vs. HR and not nearly as dramatic as it once was. Now, mainly I have seen my resting HR dropping a few beats per month.
Now that the temps are on the rise, my pace will slow to maintain HR. I'm not looking forward to having to start my runs at 0430, but, hey, what can you do? During last year's record heat in the Lonestar State, I was in the middle of training for MCM (as I will be this year also), and the first cold front that dropped the temps into the 60s resulted in a nearly 2:00 per mile reduction in mile times over a 10 mile run! The effect of heat is dramatic!
Keep pressing, folks!
I think it needs to be fairly extreme changes in temperature.
I find I run a bit better as the temperature warms up. Last week was warmer here and I was running sub 5min per km at my MAF HR, the weekend before was 10C colder and I was struggling. Back in April I was again runing around 4:45 per km when it was warmer - all around 10-12km distance.
MAF has definitely made an improvement for me, taking a big chunk off my 10km time and on my first (badly planned) 5km I was sub-20 min. The other important thing is it has really improved my endurance, such that I'm now happy at 20km for example and capable of 40km (so far). I could never have done that this time last year, but that could also be attributed simply to running more.
I find I run a bit better as the temperature warms up. Last week was warmer here and I was running sub 5min per km at my MAF HR, the weekend before was 10C colder and I was struggling. Back in April I was again runing around 4:45 per km when it was warmer - all around 10-12km distance.
MAF has definitely made an improvement for me, taking a big chunk off my 10km time and on my first (badly planned) 5km I was sub-20 min. The other important thing is it has really improved my endurance, such that I'm now happy at 20km for example and capable of 40km (so far). I could never have done that this time last year, but that could also be attributed simply to running more.
NickW
Guest
Ha! So you want our measurements now eh? Remember who gave you those in the first place - throw us out in 1792 and now you want our support. No gratitude you folks.
Just for reference
min/mile
min/km
06:10.0
03:50.0
06:20.0
03:56.2
06:30.0
04:02.4
06:40.0
04:08.6
06:50.0
04:14.8
07:00.0
04:21.0
07:10.0
04:27.2
07:20.0
04:33.5
07:30.0
04:39.7
07:40.0
04:45.9
07:50.0
04:52.1
08:00.0
04:58.3
08:10.0
05:04.5
08:15.0
05:07.6
08:30.0
05:17.0
08:40.0
05:23.2
08:50.0
05:29.4
09:00.0
05:35.6
09:10.0
05:41.8
09:20.0
05:48.0
09:30.0
05:54.3
09:40.0
06:00.5
09:50.0
06:06.7
10:00.0
06:12.9
