Mouth is for eating nose is for breathing

even uphill, S. Jurek and John Douillard say nose-breathing.
if the effort is too hard, exhaling can be through the mouth, expelling the air "like a ball of fire"
(i'm not sure what it means, but that's what they say)

the idea is that at the beginning it wont be easy and is gonna slow you down,
but with experience, you'll be more efficient AND more relax, and after few months you'll be faster, even uphill


Thanks, for the conformation about hills, as long as i know something is possible it gives me heart to explore more.:)

'like a ball of fire' may be related to a yogic breathing term 'breath of fire' more of a short explosive breath out, but i may be wrong. This would make sense on hills as you want as much oxygen going in as quickly as possible so an slow exhale would be inefficient.
 
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that's it !
Jurek doesnt say "ball of fire", but "breath of fire", and explain it comes from yoga !


Just came back from an eight mile run and nose breathed all the way.:)
Ran up a mile long hill breathing in slowly and deeply through the nose and exhaling sharply through the mouth, not quite the 'breath of fire' but an a adaption of the idea. Couldn't believe i'd done it so i went back and did it again :)
I found this technique to work wonders on the flats too, when i'm pushing the pace, else its just slow breathing in and out throughout the nose.
I can't remember the last three miles of the run so i must have been relaxed.

I was also wondering if a lifetime of wearing glasses can cause permanent restrictions to the breathing passages of your nose, much like shoes can deform your feet.
 
even uphill, S. Jurek and John Douillard say nose-breathing.
if the effort is too hard, exhaling can be through the mouth, expelling the air "like a ball of fire"
(i'm not sure what it means, but that's what they say)

the idea is that at the beginning it wont be easy and is gonna slow you down,
but with experience, you'll be more efficient AND more relax, and after few months you'll be faster, even uphill



breath trhought nose = highly oxigenated brain and body
 
And breathing through the mouth equals a non-oxygenated brain and body?

I am skeptical in the same way as I am skeptical of low heart rate training. Sure I believe they both probably work, but is it better than the traditional practice?
I suspect it's often like a placebo effect. Some practices may work, but not for the reasons people think they do. They're correcting something that's wrong, but will have no effect on those who aren't doing anything wrong.

Still, Skedaddle's experience is intriguing, although my gut reaction is to side with Kozz.
 
I'm not gonna copy the whole chapter about breathing from John Douillard, but he explain "why" it works,
some eplanations are very "western" (anatomical, scientific, ...),
some others come more from yoga and ayurvedic tradition so it may not satisfy everybody

indeed, Abide, nose inhaling seems to oxygenate more the brain than mouth inhaling.

anyway, nose and mouth breathing are very different, if you want to understand why, read the book !
 
also you are almost vegan right? pescatarian you are?

I don't really like labels or claim to belong to any movement. Sometimes its easier to make reference to popular culture to put a point across.
Even with this site i'd rather be a runner first, that is my intention, the barefoot label is just a consequence of learning about that intension.
We are all different, we all have our ways :)
 
I suspect it's often like a placebo effect. Some practices may work, but not for the reasons people think they do. They're correcting something that's wrong, but will have no effect on those who aren't doing anything wrong.

Still, Skedaddle's experience is intriguing, although my gut reaction is to side with Kozz.


The whole point of the thread was about correcting something that was wrong. You're finally starting your path to enlightenment young grasshopper :)

You don't have to choose sides, it causes division. 'Become water' (Bruce Lee) ;)
 
The whole point of the thread was about correcting something that was wrong. You're finally starting your path to enlightenment young grasshopper :)

You don't have to choose sides, it causes division. 'Become water' (Bruce Lee) ;)
I haven't made myself understood, but I don't have any interest in pursuing one of those long threads trying to clarify. I'm sure you'll do fine in any case old grasshopper. I look forward to hearing how you progress. This thread has been interesting.

As for choosing sides, hopefully we're all mature enough to tolerate differing points of view, as long as they are expressed with civility. Barefoot runners are like a tribe with two moieties. One leaning towards various techniques, one leaning more towards the 'just run' zen, but we seem to get along just fine most of the time. In keeping with the enlightenment metaphor, it would appear breathing technique is leading you towards us zenists, which I applaud.
 
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I'm not gonna copy the whole chapter about breathing from John Douillard, but he explain "why" it works,
some eplanations are very "western" (anatomical, scientific, ...),
some others come more from yoga and ayurvedic tradition so it may not satisfy everybody

indeed, Abide, nose inhaling seems to oxygenate more the brain than mouth inhaling.

anyway, nose and mouth breathing are very different, if you want to understand why, read the book !

I think we may be comparing apples to oranges. Large deep breaths through the nose may be more oxygenating than shallow breaths through the mouth but if you practice deep breathing through the mouth it's significantly more efficient and likely more oxygenating than deep nasal breathing.

Anyway not everything works for everyone, I have speculated that my mass may make me a poor candidate for it but I don't see the harm in trying it out. I would also guess that most runners would have positive results because most are very naturally shallow breathers due to the adaptactions people experience with cardiovascular activities. Forcing yourself to breathe deeply is good practice in my opinion.

Like bf running It's not a panacea. We argue about these details but when it really comes down to it 95% of progress comes from running consistently while progressively going longer and faster. Thanks to Sid for pointing that out recently.
 
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I think we may be comparing apples to oranges. Large deep breaths through the nose may be more oxygenating than shallow breaths through the mouth but if you practice deep breathing through the mouth it's significantly more efficient and likely more oxygenating than deep nasal breathing.


I dont think J. Douillard's book is comparing apples to oranges. for a same quantity of air, he shows that the path is different, but also the muscles, the quality, the match between need and supply, the humidity, the temperature, etc... i'm sorry my english is not good enough to explain all of these things here, but really, its worth reading it.

best
 
And breathing through the mouth equals a non-oxygenated brain and body?

I am skeptical in the same way as I am skeptical of low heart rate training. Sure I believe they both probably work, but is it better than the traditional practice?

of course not, what a fallacy, only less oxygenated body and brain obviously

if u breath trhough nose the air goes more profound in the limbs and also with an adecuate temperate (nose is a filter) and also that filter of the nose erase dirty things from air
is very simple
 
As someone who has had there nose broken at least three times, breathing through my nose during any kind of exercise is next to impossible. Been like that since my early thirties. Talking when I should have been listening thing. Have managed to live with it so far!
 
of course not, what a fallacy, only less oxygenated body and brain obviously

if u breath trhough nose the air goes more profound in the limbs and also with an adecuate temperate (nose is a filter) and also that filter of the nose erase dirty things from air
is very simple

From this article some points that seem helpful

http://breathing.com/articles/nose-breathing.htm

"1. The lungs are a primary source of our energy level. They extract oxygen from the air we breathe primarily on the exhale. Because the nostrils are smaller then the mouth, air exhaled through the nose creates back pressure when one exhales. It slows the air escape so the lungs have more time to extract oxygen from them. When there is proper oxygen-carbon dioxide exchange, the blood will maintain a balanced pH. If carbon dioxide is lost too quickly, as in mouth breathing, oxygen absorption is decreased.

3. Also, when mouth breathing, the brain thinks carbon dioxide is being lost too quickly and sensing this, will stimulate the goblet cells to produce mucous, slow the breathing and cause constriction of blood vessels. Breathing through the nose also limits air intake and forces one to SLOW down. Proper nose breathing reduces hypertension and stress for most people. Kind of like a speed control (governor) on a car engine.

9. Nose breathing imposes approximately 50 percent more resistance to the air stream in normal individuals than does mouth breathing, resulting in 10-20 percent more O2 uptake. (Cottle, 1972:Rohrer, 1915) There must be adequate nasal resistance to maintain adequate elasticity of the lungs. (Cottle 1980)"

And some further reading if anyones interested

http://www.aipro.info/drive/File/Nasopulmonary Physiology. P.A. Barelli.pdf

1.9. Nose versus Mouth Breathing

In addition to those differences described above, another striking physiological difference between nasal breathing and mouth breathing is that the work of lung movement is approximately doubled when breathing is done through the nose, due to increased resistance. Nasal breathing is involuntary (Butler, 1960; Cottle, 1981). Mouth, or voluntary, breathing occurs when there is difficulty breathing through the nose, such as in exertion, under stress, and-in particular -when cardiac, pulmonary, or other illness hampers the supply of oxygen to the tissues. Thus, nasal versus mouth breathing is a "trade-off." The former increases the work of breathing but provides many benefits in comparison to the latter.

http://www.aipro.info/drive/File/The work, ways and patterns of nasal breathing. MH Cottle.pdf
http://www.aipro.info/drive/File/A consideration of nasal, pulmonary and cardio-vascular interdependance and nasal-pulmonary function studies.M.H. Cottle.pdf
 
The idea of resistance and back pressure created by the nose is important for oxygen- carbon dioxide exchange is interesting.
It's the resistance i find uncomfortable when nose breathing, i thought it was hampering me when in fact i just didn't understand it, or more to the point was aware of it.
Maybe it's just about acclimatising to new sensations once you have the technique down.
 
thanks for the info Abide

specially is devastating for kids because their mind and body are less oxygenated and causes a lot of problems specially in the focus, attention, emotion and others
also deforms jaw, whole face, palate, teeth and wek the upper lip due to the non use

As someone who has had there nose broken at least three times, breathing through my nose during any kind of exercise is next to impossible. Been like that since my early thirties. Talking when I should have been listening thing. Have managed to live with it so far!

thats bad, try avoid milk and other if you also have muccus

i have deviated nose due to injury and its diffuclt to breathe through my right nostril, your case must be worse, sorry to hear that