Optimal strength training for runners

Same guy. He does upper, lower, rest, upper, lower, rest, rest.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachments/ 16727d1173200746-best-use-39-microsoft-word-sample .att

I can't do that. He says if one has enough strength endurance that it's possible.

What do you mean you can't do that?

His plan is interetsing but 70-90 minutes on two lifts is crazy!

I also have to agree with the weighted walking, I probably wouldn't go above 40lbs. and only for a 30-40 minutes. I know hikers do a lot more than that, specifcally the Sherpa's but at some point the gains aren't worth the potential risks.
 
Yah, the way I'm doing squats now, they really work the quads, so they're a perfect complement to the deadlifts, but it's going to take a while before my legs and glutes can handle the kind of deadlifts, squats, and running I want to do on a consistent basis. So it makes sense to only push the deadlifts and maybe a little bit the running and just work on form for the squats for a while. In 6-12 months hopefully everything will be up to speed. I would still like to be able to squat at least 315 on a routine basis. And I'm getting a sense that I may be one of those guys who can squat close to my deadlift, so if I can really get the deadlift up to 405, then a squat in the mid-300s should be possible. Man, that would be great.

Thanks for the clarification on super sets. That makes sense and is a big help. Next time I'll probably still superset the bb bench press and inverted rows, and maybe light db bench press with heavy db rows, but then do bb rows, dips, and Russian Twists separately. We'll see. It might be a good idea to do the cable flyes and cable rows supersetted, but it's kind of a hassle since they use the same low pulley.

For cable flyes, I think next time I'll do them a bit lighter. Also, on the third set I did them with less arc, drawing the elbows more straight back and then pushing the cables, and this helped.

For dips, ring dips are considerably harder than bar dips. My plan is to get good on the latter first. You could also do assisted dips by keeping your feet on the floor or bench, or just half dips. In the end, I may have to give up on the cable flyes and you on the dips, but like you said, first we should try reduced versions and try to build up to them more.

Really looking forward to the high pulls and power cleans tomorrow . . .

I suspect I will never be able to squat much over 300 and that may even be a stretch. It would be pretty impressive to do 315 for a set of 5 though.

Yeah finding the right mix makes supersetting flow much easier. Cable rows + ring push ups or flyes and inverted rows/pull ups are good mixes. Or mix the body parts and do straight legged deadlifts and russian twists?

I do think ring dips are harder than bar dips, but I like the flexibility to keep the width at a natural distance like you can with rings. I'll stick it out a few more times and just do 3x3 each day or something.
 
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What do you mean you can't do that?

His plan is interetsing but 70-90 minutes on two lifts is crazy!
I think he said 2 exercises per muscle/body part, but each workout has multiple muscles/body parts.
I also have to agree with the weighted walking, I probably wouldn't go above 40lbs. and only for a 30-40 minutes. I know hikers do a lot more than that, specifcally the Sherpa's but at some point the gains aren't worth the potential risks.
With a good hiking backpack, most of the weight should be on the hips, not the shoulders. I don't know how that translates to weighted vests for exercise, but might be worth considering the difference in mechanics.

Comparing oneself to a Sherpa is a losing proposition. I saw those guys walk very briskly, practically running, with five or more 24-bottle cases of soda pop!

Yeah, we'll see about the squats, but I've really come around to the powerlifter view that it's the big, heavy lifts that give you the most benefit. Everything else is details. Yesterday, I got my first glimpse of how getting the initial bounce on the way up could allow one to add to the load. I wrote "elastic recoil" but I guess the proper name is "stretch reflex." Anyway, for the time being I'm really going to try to hone my technique in the 185-225 range. That's about the right amount of resistance to really feel how the movement should go. Much lighter, and it gets easy to cheat a bit.

here is what rippetoe says about bouncing:

We have already introduced the concept of the "bounce" out of the bottom. Since it is accomplished with the hips, and with the part of the brain that's thinking about the hips, this seems like a fine time to discuss it. Once again, the bounce DOES NOT INVOLVE THE KNEE. It happens when the hamstrings reach the limit of their normal range of motion due to the slight forward motion of the knee and pronounced backward motion of the hips. Remember: the pelvis is locked in position with the torso by the lower back muscles, the hamstrings attach to the ischial tuberosity at the bottom of the pelvis, and the pelvis tilits forward with the torso as squat depth increases, thus stretching out the hamstring. The bounce out of the bottom of the squat is essentially a correct use of the stretch reflex inherent in any dynamic muscle contraction. It is safe, it is correct, and it is necessary if heavy weights are to be lifted. The only way it can hurt the knees is if the hamstrings are relaxed at the bottom, which would result in the knees traveling forward. If the hips are shoved back at the bottom, the hamstrings will tighten, the knee will be protected, and power out of the bottom is increased.


For supersets, I'm trying to be strict about matching agonist and antagonist muscles, but if it doesn't work out, I may try your suggestion, because I really like supersets as a time-saver.

My dip bars are just 20" apart or so, close to Olympic specs, which minimizes the strain on my shoulders and keeps the elbows in close. If I do ring dips, I'll try to do the same, like you.

Sid, maybe time for a barbell?
 
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After my teenage experience of having to roll the bar off my chest, hips, and family jewels, I'm not going to have a barbell at home.

If I outgrow these, then I'll hit the gym, where I can get a spotter. With 175lb for each dumbbell (350lbs total), that really should keep me busy for a very long time!
http://www.powerblock.com/prod_homeuse_xxxl175.php
Yah, I'm just giving you crap, and we've gone through this before, but there really shouldn't be any concerns about safety. Just don't clip or collar the weight plates and make sure to have safety catches on your rack posts. Yesterday I failed on one of my squats due to lack of concentration but I use carriage bolts as safety catches and they worked fine. First time I've needed them though. And if you stay in the middle to higher rep range, you can almost always dig out that last rep with a little cheating on form.

Still, I'm not trying to dissuade you from using dumbbells exclusively. Whatever works is best.
 
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To each his own!

I do really like the Powerblocks quick change system. (Let's see your barbells do that!) I don't have and am not interested in making room for more gym equipment. I have too much clutter already. Plus I have a gym membership, if I want to lift heavier.

Carrying around the brake rotor did make me wonder, if perhaps one could just buy a bar and use the old brake rotors as plates! (But, no, I'm not seriously going to do that.)
 
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To each his own!

I do really like the Powerblocks quick change system. (Let's see your barbells do that!) I don't have and am not interested in making room for more gym equipment. I have too much clutter already. Plus I have a gym membership, if I want to lift heavier.

Carrying around the brake rotor did make me wonder, if perhaps one could just buy a bar and use the old brake rotors as plates! (But, no, I'm not seriously going to do that.)
Mos' definitely.

The Powerblocks look sweet. At some point in the future, it would be nice to trade in all my rubber hexes for one set of Powerblocks. Still, it's pointless to compare db with bb exercises. They can work the same muscles but in somewhat different ways. For example, for the bench press, I prefer the barbell, but for bentover rows, I prefer the dumbbell. And the only way to do any of the Olympic lifts properly is with a rotating bar.

But for purpose of general fitness I doubt any of this matters. You've got a good thing going and that's all that counts.
Besides with my constantly changing routine (can it really be considered a routine?), who is to say that I won't change my mind and get a power rack in 6 months? ;)
!!

Oh yes, we all reserve the right to completely change our minds the minute we plateau or get bored.
 
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I have just come to the horrible realization that my squats have not been ass to grass, because holding my dumbbells at my sides have prevented me from doing so. I need to stand on something. I might try to rig something up with concrete blocks, or perhaps construct something out of wood.
 
I have just come to the horrible realization that my squats have not been ass to grass, because holding my dumbbells at my sides have prevented me from doing so. I need to stand on something. I might try to rig something up with concrete blocks, or perhaps construct something out of wood.
If you make it high enough, you could also incorporate box jumps/hops into your routine.
 
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I have just come to the horrible realization that my squats have not been ass to grass, because holding my dumbbells at my sides have prevented me from doing so. I need to stand on something. I might try to rig something up with concrete blocks, or perhaps construct something out of wood.

Ass to grass is not really required parallel thighs to the ground is the "rule" or you hip crease below your thigh which is basically the same thing. It would be challenging to get a a2g squat with dumbbells at your side due to the weight distribution. Try holding a light one in front of you like a goblet squat and you will feel the difference.
 
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I saw that on Amazon, too. How much weight do you think it will support?
Man, I couldn't tell you, but it seems pretty sturdy. I've jumped on it weighing 245-250, no problem (down to 242 this morning . . .).
Ass to grass is not really required parallel thighs to the ground is the "rule" or you hip crease below your thigh which is basically the same thing. It would be challenging to get a a2g squat with dumbbells at your side due to the weight distribution. Try holding a light one in front of you like a goblet squat and you will feel the difference.

Ass to grass is just an expression, right? If you look at those videos I posted, which purport to demonstrate atg squatting, the top of the thighs are at parallel or just below it. Due to the nature of the upper leg anatomy, the hammies and butt appear to be sloping downwards though. If someone really were to let their butt touch the ground they'd fall backward, right?

But I agree, goblet squats would be a good solution to Sid's problem, especially if he gets the heavier Powerblocks.

Ran 3.5 miles yesterday, pushing the pace just a bit -- pretty sore this morning. It's going to be another few weeks before running starts to get easy again I guess. Good news is the MCL and big toe met felt/feel fine.

Looking forward to high pulls and power cleans this afternoon . . . might try a 'long run' of 7-8 miles tomorrow.

BTW, I think my barbell rows on Wednesday looked more like this:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/exercises/detail/view/name/bent-over-barbell-row

Than this, which is like a Pendlay row:

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/BackGeneral/BBBentOverRow.html
http://stronglifts.com/how-to-master-barbell-row-technique/

The former are easier to do with heavier weights. The latter, the Pendlay rows, are said to be a more complete back exercise. But I feel a little strain in my lower back when I do them, and I wonder if it wouldn't be better to do hyperextensions to work the part of the back the more upright bentover rows miss. Thoughts?