Winter running - what? how? why?

I made a challenge to myself to run at least one mile every day between Thanksgiving (28 November) and New Year's Day. The second day of my challenge, we got 14 inches of snow and the temperatures have barely been above 20F. I've managed to run everyday (although sometimes just over the bare minimum mileage for my challenge!). I haven't done any barefooted yet, and I'm not sure I'd want to just because of the jagged crusty ice everywhere. But I have mostly run in my VFFs with Smartwool toe socks, and I've discovered that that combination is great on snow and ice, and is very comfortable even down to 5-10F.
Jagged and crusty ice is not fun for anyone, especially not barefoot.
I hear you on the VFF and smartwool combination, a favourite of mine too.
Good luck with your challenge.
 
Great thread all.
Im also doing the Holiday Streak. Its my first attempt at this. 3 weeks and still alive. Mostly Ive been running in sneakers. I did get 1 run in day after Thanksgiving BF on rubberized track. Felt like it had tons of ice and irregularities in the surface. Then I walked around in grass covered in frost and realized just how relatively warm the track was. I did one more minimalist run in these neoprene socks called NUFOOT. After 3 weeks, and a long run of 6 miles in 20 degrees, they wore out. I like running on a TM when weather is bad. I really like it. But, getting myself outside, its usually better than I think it will be.

Soft new snow. I keep wanting to run in this. It seems like it would be fun. I didnt the other day, because I started thinking of it melting. Wet and cold are hard to run in.
Getting out there really is all about mind set to me and as I really love being outdoors all year I usually find it very liberating.
Is it not hard being back in sneakers?

Soon running will have to share time with snowboarding though, which I would not want to do barefoot ;)
 
Lee, there simply is such a massive amount of good information in your post.

I hear you on thehaving to wear shoes thing, but I am forced to during winter, if nothing else because temperatures gets into the no longer barefootable range and I really do not want frostbite on my toes.
But winter running really can be an amazing adventure.
I am very very tempted to try out some snow running barefoot, but I need to find a day where the temperature is wont kill my feet.
I run in mostly synthetic stuff, but I have found a layering strategy that keeps me comfortable down to -25C or so without restricting movement too much.

Would love to have a street like the one you mention around though.
Thomas, be very careful with the snow. Some people can do it, some people can't. Last year after methodically testing my tolerances, I set out on a run in just an inch of fresh snow (2-3 cms) at 21F/-6-7C. I felt fine. But then after a mile and a quarter / two kilometers, I looked down at my feet and saw that three of my toes had gone white. So I stopped to put on shoes and continued my run. I was so overconfident that I didn't even bring socks along. When I got home and my feet began to warm up, I was in serious pain for about 2 hours. I had been frostnipped and then lost almost all my toe and plantar calluses a few weeks later. No lasting damage though, so I was lucky, but I've seen pictures of others with really gnarly results. On hindsight, what I should've done is put on socks and shoes and run straight back home. I might've fared a little better.

Around freezing, I can run in slush and/or on wet surfaces, at least to some extent, but below freezing, moisture of any kind is pretty dodgy for me and a lot of other people here at BRS who have tried it. As I wrote above, I tried it two days ago for a half a kilometer or so and got (extremely) mild frostnip. Today my toes feel almost completely normal, but it was definitely not worth the risk. One thing I want to experiment with this winter is running on compacted snow but I will always be close to my car and will have socks and shoes or maybe even easy-to-slip-on down booties or wool slippers on hand to use at the first sign of trouble. I don't think I will ever try running in fresh snow again or any kind of slush or wetness if it's below freezing. I can handle a patch of it here or there, as long as I can recover on a dry surface, but I can't run in it on a constant basis. It conducts the heat right out of my toes.

As for shoes, I really don't mind them in fresh snow, but it really sucks when I have to use them on dry pavement. I've found the Vapor Trails, with just 3mm of sole, are about the only shoes that allow me to maintain my normal landing without having to think about it. The SoftStar Moc3s are also very thin. With anything a little thicker, I start heel-striking even though my cadence and stride-length remain the same.

I agree layers are key. So far I've found two midweight Merino wool layers with a heavyweight Merino wool jacket (Icebreaker Legend) are adequate down to the coldest temps we get here in Minnesota. But if you're not running, and it's really cold out and there's a significant windchill, then you really need a down jacket with some kind of synthetic exterior if you're going to be out for a while.

Getting out there really is all about mind set to me and as I really love being outdoors all year I usually find it very liberating.
Totally agree. The only way to deal with winter is to embrace it!

Have you considered participating in the Mileage Reporting forum? It's a nice way to keep tabs on each other's adventures.
 
Another dane - Pænt goddag :)
our native habbit of salting away everything definitely is annoying. I tend to think that we have a very barefoot friendly environment in general.
How do you find the gravel around the lakes? I have been running there a few times and foudn it quite OK for running myself, but parts of it an be a little tough.

I much prefer running barefoot in 25C over 5C though :)

perhaps we should do a barefoot around the lakes group run or something someday?

Pent goddag (actually, I'm Norwegian, but it's more or less the same, isn't?).

I love running around the lakes, although I usually avoid the gravel. It's doable, but I'm a coward sometimes.

But absolutely, we should do a bf run together one day. (I have seen one man with grey hair in a ponytail running bf around here- is that you? (The man runs, not the hair :)) there are a few other bfers in Copenhagen as well, there's s facebook group, but I have never met them- and most of them usually run in minshoes anyway.

But yes, good idea, let me know when you are in Copenhagen.
 
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Thomas, be very careful with the snow. Some people can do it, some people can't. Last year after methodically testing my tolerances, I set out on a run in just an inch of fresh snow (2-3 cms) at 21F/-6-7C. I felt fine. But then after a mile and a quarter / two kilometers, I looked down at my feet and saw that three of my toes had gone white. So I stopped to put on shoes and continued my run. I was so overconfident that I didn't even bring socks along. When I got home and my feet began to warm up, I was in serious pain for about 2 hours. I had been frostnipped and then lost almost all my toe and plantar calluses a few weeks later. No lasting damage though, so I was lucky, but I've seen pictures of others with really gnarly results. On hindsight, what I should've done is put on socks and shoes and run straight back home. I might've fared a little better.

Around freezing, I can run in slush and/or on wet surfaces, at least to some extent, but below freezing, moisture of any kind is pretty dodgy for me and a lot of other people here at BRS who have tried it. As I wrote above, I tried it two days ago for a half a kilometer or so and got (extremely) mild frostnip. Today my toes feel almost completely normal, but it was definitely not worth the risk. One thing I want to experiment with this winter is running on compacted snow but I will always be close to my car and will have socks and shoes or maybe even easy-to-slip-on down booties or wool slippers on hand to use at the first sign of trouble. I don't think I will ever try running in fresh snow again or any kind of slush or wetness if it's below freezing. I can handle a patch of it here or there, as long as I can recover on a dry surface, but I can't run in it on a constant basis. It conducts the heat right out of my toes.

As for shoes, I really don't mind them in fresh snow, but it really sucks when I have to use them on dry pavement. I've found the Vapor Trails, with just 3mm of sole, are about the only shoes that allow me to maintain my normal landing without having to think about it. The SoftStar Moc3s are also very thin. With anything a little thicker, I start heel-striking even though my cadence and stride-length remain the same.

I agree layers are key. So far I've found two midweight Merino wool layers with a heavyweight Merino wool jacket (Icebreaker Legend) are adequate down to the coldest temps we get here in Minnesota. But if you're not running, and it's really cold out and there's a significant windchill, then you really need a down jacket with some kind of synthetic exterior if you're going to be out for a while.


Totally agree. The only way to deal with winter is to embrace it!

Have you considered participating in the Mileage Reporting forum? It's a nice way to keep tabs on each other's adventures.

Pink is good, blue / purple is a warning, white means you have gone too far.

Again, it's different for hikers. We tend to keep a close eye on our feet which is something you runners don't have the luxury of doing. Interestingly, I find boggy and wet ground in moorland and heaths harder than snow. Probably because of the immersion factor.

What I have learned (the hard way), is NOT to warm my feet up too quickly if they get too cold. It's agony!
 
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We get 4.5 months of subfreezing temperatures, and running in the cold is just a matter of fact. I'm blessed to be able to run at all. Winter is beautiful. Cold crisp air fills my lungs. Frost and ice form on my balaclava. Snow gets crunchy under foot. I live in an urban environment, but grew up on a farm. I miss the days when I could throw on skis or snowshoes and head out across the fields and into the forest. I'm not one for fancy technical clothing. Layer up and head out the door. Feel winter. I've had to trade in my isolated nature runs to those of urban trails, roads, and frozen canals. Ottawa has an 8k long skating rink (Rideau Canal), which can have 1000s of people on it. I enjoy the connection with nature that I feel, when running. Sounds carries better. Stream rises off a nearby creek coating the trees in hoar frost.

Over the last three winters I've experimented running barefoot. Yes, I've gotten a couple cases of frostnip, but nothing like I did as a stupid teenager walking the neighbourhood for long hours while wearing runners. We were too cool to wear boots or anything warmer than a jean jacket. Experiencing the burning tingles that produce tears is not an experience to repeat. That said, I have been able to run 900+ km over the last three winters. I have discovered and expanded my tolerance.

I envy Thomas for you have a beautiful region to run in. My dream would be to travel the world and go for runs with members from every country. Each run is a lesson. A lesson of gratitude for my life, the people I meet, and the gifts of nature.
 
WHy no running this year?


Well... From last may I have had groin pain from running, tried out lots of things. Then I started stretching a lot, which seemed to help, I could run without pain. Then after two weeks I got pain in left testicle. Doctor told that ciprofloxacin is only right antibiotics for that. I know that it can wreck achilles tendons (I remember reading it for some barefoot running blog), but I hadn't much choice. Four days and my calves started to really hurt and then another doctor told that there is alternative antibiotics. Well, next antibiotic was almost as horrible thing, it caused painful rash to both testicles and around my asshole too. Few days of that, and visit to doctor revealed that there's still more alternative antibiotics to use and the last antibiotic cured the pain and didn't cause any side effects! But it didn't cure the pain permanently, it keeps coming back about after a week of no pain.. And that side effect of ciprofloxacin is still hurting my achilles tendons. I did find some self help for effects of ciprofloxacin that helped a lot, probably saved my achilles tendons from rupture. High doses of magnesium and some other stuffs (there was this ebook, levaquin tendonitis solution) and when in pain massage of soleus and calf muscles with some hard ball..

So, if some doctor suggests ciprofloxacin or any other fluoroquinolone antibiotics, hit him hard few times until he comes up with alternatives... Those antibiotics work by altering your DNA, so that the virus can't multiply. And cause some really bad havoc at the same time. That damage may be permanent... Googling cipro poisoning brings several other victims, one guy lost his health altogether and in his last blog entry he wondered why hadn't he killed himself yet, didn't know any reason for that. Well, I have just mildly aching achilles tendons, but it might take really long to heal them, they start hurting more if I run lightly for a mile.

No cause has been found for that testicle pain and going from doctor to another seems to be really slow process, it was a month ago when I visited specialist and he told me to go to some tests, he said all the intructions will be posted to me. I have been waiting for that... I have had some antibiotics that time, so there has not really been pain, but it kinda feels like it might start soon again. I kinda hoped that antibiotics would have killed the thing permanently this time, as it was biggest dosage so far.. And going to doctor really suck as they just have to squeeze my balls painfully so it will hurt for almost a week because of that "examination". It's been 2½ months with this thing, I don't think that it will go away anytime soon...
 
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Thanks Moose, lots of very good advise here.
Would you be able to expand on the deep snow thingy... I have this idea that running through soft pow would be amazing barefoot, but given your comments I may have to rethink that.
Snow crusts are always a little troublesome, especially as I often have bare skin around my ankles, no cuts yet though, but something to be aware of.
Thanks again for your very interesting advise.

I found that if the snow stays beneath my feet, I can tolerate much colder temps. But when the snow covers the top of my feet, they get cold much faster. It's fine for short stints, but I like to keep most of my barefoot snow running to packed snow.
 
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Thomas, be very careful with the snow. Some people can do it, some people can't. Last year after methodically testing my tolerances, I set out on a run in just an inch of fresh snow (2-3 cms) at 21F/-6-7C. I felt fine. But then after a mile and a quarter / two kilometers, I looked down at my feet and saw that three of my toes had gone white. So I stopped to put on shoes and continued my run. I was so overconfident that I didn't even bring socks along. When I got home and my feet began to warm up, I was in serious pain for about 2 hours. I had been frostnipped and then lost almost all my toe and plantar calluses a few weeks later. No lasting damage though, so I was lucky, but I've seen pictures of others with really gnarly results. On hindsight, what I should've done is put on socks and shoes and run straight back home. I might've fared a little better.

Around freezing, I can run in slush and/or on wet surfaces, at least to some extent, but below freezing, moisture of any kind is pretty dodgy for me and a lot of other people here at BRS who have tried it. As I wrote above, I tried it two days ago for a half a kilometer or so and got (extremely) mild frostnip. Today my toes feel almost completely normal, but it was definitely not worth the risk. One thing I want to experiment with this winter is running on compacted snow but I will always be close to my car and will have socks and shoes or maybe even easy-to-slip-on down booties or wool slippers on hand to use at the first sign of trouble. I don't think I will ever try running in fresh snow again or any kind of slush or wetness if it's below freezing. I can handle a patch of it here or there, as long as I can recover on a dry surface, but I can't run in it on a constant basis. It conducts the heat right out of my toes.

As for shoes, I really don't mind them in fresh snow, but it really sucks when I have to use them on dry pavement. I've found the Vapor Trails, with just 3mm of sole, are about the only shoes that allow me to maintain my normal landing without having to think about it. The SoftStar Moc3s are also very thin. With anything a little thicker, I start heel-striking even though my cadence and stride-length remain the same.

I agree layers are key. So far I've found two midweight Merino wool layers with a heavyweight Merino wool jacket (Icebreaker Legend) are adequate down to the coldest temps we get here in Minnesota. But if you're not running, and it's really cold out and there's a significant windchill, then you really need a down jacket with some kind of synthetic exterior if you're going to be out for a while.


Totally agree. The only way to deal with winter is to embrace it!

Have you considered participating in the Mileage Reporting forum? It's a nice way to keep tabs on each other's adventures.
Frostbite is really something to look out for. I am however very used to it from a number of other activities, such as snowboarding and mountaineering, we do both in very low temperatures it is mostly a face and finger issue here though.
reading your experiences is very valuable. I will not promise not to do the fresh pow thingy, but I agree that dry is better or easier to run at least.

Shoe wise I tend to stick to fivefingers. Merrels are too narrow for my feet and I really dislike the feel of a closed toebox. Vivobarefoot ra and gobi are great for days where you have to wear shoes (business meetings etc.)
the el-x is having one of the best soles I have ever walked or run, it really retains an amazing amount of feel, the upper is not perfect though. The seeya is not too bad either and I have come to really like it (for a shoe). the spyridon is my favourite off road shoe, it is great on rugged sharp terrain, where cuts and bruises would otherwise be the order of the day.

Seems we tend to go with the same amount of layers, just different materials, I have found that as long as I am moving heavy insulation is not really needed, a windprrof layer works miracles though.
 
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Pent goddag (actually, I'm Norwegian, but it's more or less the same, isn't?).

I love running around the lakes, although I usually avoid the gravel. It's doable, but I'm a coward sometimes.

But absolutely, we should do a bf run together one day. (I have seen one man with grey hair in a ponytail running bf around here- is that you? (The man runs, not the hair :)) there are a few other bfers in Copenhagen as well, there's s facebook group, but I have never met them- and most of them usually run in minshoes anyway.

But yes, good idea, let me know when you are in Copenhagen.
Hej Niesto,
Danish or Norwegian does not really matter, it is so close, you spell more like we speak, where us danes are stuck with a written language that does not resemble our spoken one :)
I used to live on Østerbro so did a fair bit of running around the lakes, I am bald though.
Glad to hear I am not the only one disliking gravel, it is doable, but you have to look out for bigger pebbles, most of it is actually pretty OK, but I agree paved is easier on the feet :)

I know about the FB group, but I have yet to meet anyone from there in the wild.

Lets figure something out. Perhaps a christmas run?
 
We get 4.5 months of subfreezing temperatures, and running in the cold is just a matter of fact. I'm blessed to be able to run at all. Winter is beautiful. Cold crisp air fills my lungs. Frost and ice form on my balaclava. Snow gets crunchy under foot. I live in an urban environment, but grew up on a farm. I miss the days when I could throw on skis or snowshoes and head out across the fields and into the forest. I'm not one for fancy technical clothing. Layer up and head out the door. Feel winter. I've had to trade in my isolated nature runs to those of urban trails, roads, and frozen canals. Ottawa has an 8k long skating rink (Rideau Canal), which can have 1000s of people on it. I enjoy the connection with nature that I feel, when running. Sounds carries better. Stream rises off a nearby creek coating the trees in hoar frost.

Over the last three winters I've experimented running barefoot. Yes, I've gotten a couple cases of frostnip, but nothing like I did as a stupid teenager walking the neighbourhood for long hours while wearing runners. We were too cool to wear boots or anything warmer than a jean jacket. Experiencing the burning tingles that produce tears is not an experience to repeat. That said, I have been able to run 900+ km over the last three winters. I have discovered and expanded my tolerance.

I envy Thomas for you have a beautiful region to run in. My dream would be to travel the world and go for runs with members from every country. Each run is a lesson. A lesson of gratitude for my life, the people I meet, and the gifts of nature.
Your description of winter is such a vivid description of why I love it. Nothing like a cold morning under northern lights with nothing but snow and mountains, and that wonderful sound of arctic snow when walking.
Hoarfrost is the one thing being very rare in Greenland and one thing I would love to really experience one day.

I remember the canal in Ottawa well, I was there in January 2012 for a couple of days (returning from Iqaluit) and had two gorgeous runs on it.
I recall Ottawa as a very nice place and with a great atmosphere.
 
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Well... From last may I have had groin pain from running, tried out lots of things. Then I started stretching a lot, which seemed to help, I could run without pain. Then after two weeks I got pain in left testicle. Doctor told that ciprofloxacin is only right antibiotics for that. I know that it can wreck achilles tendons (I remember reading it for some barefoot running blog), but I hadn't much choice. Four days and my calves started to really hurt and then another doctor told that there is alternative antibiotics. Well, next antibiotic was almost as horrible thing, it caused painful rash to both testicles and around my asshole too. Few days of that, and visit to doctor revealed that there's still more alternative antibiotics to use and the last antibiotic cured the pain and didn't cause any side effects! But it didn't cure the pain permanently, it keeps coming back about after a week of no pain.. And that side effect of ciprofloxacin is still hurting my achilles tendons. I did find some self help for effects of ciprofloxacin that helped a lot, probably saved my achilles tendons from rupture. High doses of magnesium and some other stuffs (there was this ebook, levaquin tendonitis solution) and when in pain massage of soleus and calf muscles with some hard ball..

So, if some doctor suggests ciprofloxacin or any other fluoroquinolone antibiotics, hit him hard few times until he comes up with alternatives... Those antibiotics work by altering your DNA, so that the virus can't multiply. And cause some really bad havoc at the same time. That damage may be permanent... Googling cipro poisoning brings several other victims, one guy lost his health altogether and in his last blog entry he wondered why hadn't he killed himself yet, didn't know any reason for that. Well, I have just mildly aching achilles tendons, but it might take really long to heal them, they start hurting more if I run lightly for a mile.

No cause has been found for that testicle pain and going from doctor to another seems to be really slow process, it was a month ago when I visited specialist and he told me to go to some tests, he said all the intructions will be posted to me. I have been waiting for that... I have had some antibiotics that time, so there has not really been pain, but it kinda feels like it might start soon again. I kinda hoped that antibiotics would have killed the thing permanently this time, as it was biggest dosage so far.. And going to doctor really suck as they just have to squeeze my balls painfully so it will hurt for almost a week because of that "examination". It's been 2½ months with this thing, I don't think that it will go away anytime soon...

Sounds absolutely horrible... I am not really sure what to say except that I truly hope you will find your way out of it.
 
Hej Niesto,
Danish or Norwegian does not really matter, it is so close, you spell more like we speak, where us danes are stuck with a written language that does not resemble our spoken one :)
I used to live on Østerbro so did a fair bit of running around the lakes, I am bald though.
Glad to hear I am not the only one disliking gravel, it is doable, but you have to look out for bigger pebbles, most of it is actually pretty OK, but I agree paved is easier on the feet :)

I know about the FB group, but I have yet to meet anyone from there in the wild.

Lets figure something out. Perhaps a christmas run?

Yes, let's do a Xmas run. Pm me. (In Danish :))
 
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Flammee, I posted a lot about the effects of quinolones and fluoroquinolones a few years ago when I took some antibiotics for rosacea prescribed by my doctor. The type I took weren't quinolones, but within 1-1/2 to 2 weeks after starting them, I began having horrible Achilles pain and burning in my arches so bad that I could not walk. When I tried to walk, it felt like my tissues in my feet were being torn apart. I posted about it here at the BRS. About the same time, I had trouble typing on the computer. I had to use voice software just to type. Some of you may remember this. I had an MRI done on my feet, but it showed nothing. The orthopedic doctor I was dealing with said it must be inflammation, but couldn't give me a real diagnosis. It took a really long time to get through that, and I healed slowly over the next many months, but I have never been 100% as I was before taking the antibiotics. I still have burning in my heels and arches when I have been on my feet for a period of time, and I have pain in my wrists and hands half the time. I have always wondered if the pharmacist gave me the wrong medicine, gave me quinolones, but I didn't think to keep the bottle at the time, and flushed the antibiotics down the drain. What helped me the most, to get over the worst of it, was taking anti-inflammatories (Voltaren). (I took both the pills and the gel; the gel didn't do anything for me, but the pills really helped.) I also took probiotics (the real kind that is kept refrigerated, not the off-the-shelf stuff) and a liver detox I got at the local herb shop. Please try these three things: Voltaren (ask you doctor for a prescription), probiotics and liver detox (find a good herb/health store).

The thing is, these doctors don't warn their patients of these side effects. They don't even specifically ask if you are a runner or an athlete. This should change. We should have better control over what is prescribed to us. But we are not the experts. We don't know what questions to ask. We rely on our doctors to have our best interest at heart, but how do we know if they do?

Search this site for "antibiotics." There are others who have stories similar to yours here. Maybe you guys can talk.

Here's what Dr. Stoxen wrote about ciprofloxacin in another post. What is interesting to me is that about 1-1/2 years ago, a peripheral nerve surgeon diagnosed me with peripheral neuropathy. sigh. Could I have received the wrong antibiotics? Could the antibiotics I received been too strong for me and caused similar damage like quinolones?

You need to talk to your doctor about this drug and your barefoot running. There are risks here. Call your doctor tomorrow and ask him about these warnings by the FDA

There have been a number of regulatory actions taken as a result of such adverse reactions, which included published warnings,[44][45]additional warnings and safety information added to the package inserts[46] together with the issuance of "Dear Doctor Letters"[47] concerning the recent addition of Black Box Warnings. In 2004, the U.S. FDA requested new warning labels to be added to all of the fluoroquinolones, including ciprofloxacin, regarding peripheral neuropathy (irreversible nerve damage), tendon damage, heart problems (prolonged QT Interval / torsades de pointes), pseudomembranous colitis, rhabdomyolysis(muscle breakdown), Stevens–Johnson syndrome, as well as concurrent usage of NSAIDs contributing to the severity of these reactions.[citation needed]
Subsequent to this, on 25 June 2007, the U.S. FDA required manufacturers to add an additional warning to the package inserts that stated "Other serious and sometimes fatal events, some due to hypersensitivity, and some due to uncertain etiology, have been reported in patients receiving therapy with quinolones, including ciprofloxacin."[48] It was not until 2008, (four years later) that the label revisions for ciprofloxacin included any warnings concerning heart problems (prolonged QT interval / torsade de pointes). Warnings concerning rhabdomyolysis and Stevens–Johnson syndrome were still absent from the package inserts as of September 2009.
The serious adverse effects that may occur as a result of ciprofloxacin therapy include irreversible peripheral neuropathy,[49][50] spontaneous tendon rupture and tendonitis,[51][52][53][54] acute liver failure or serious liver injury (hepatitis),[55][56] QTc prolongation/torsades de pointes,[20] toxic epidermal necrolysis(TEN),[57][58][58] and Stevens–Johnson syndrome, severe central nervous system disorders (CNS)[25] and Clostridium difficile associated disease (CDAD:pseudomembranous colitis),[59][60] as well as photosensitivity/phototoxicity reactions.

Here's what I posted elsewhere from a while back about probiotics:

About the probiotics, you want to make sure you only purchase "living" probiotics. Probiotics are living organisms. They must be kept refrigerated in order to be kept alive, in order to have their full potency/efficacy. Go to your local herb shop and get them out of the fridge. When you buy the junk off the shelf at the pharmacy or your grocery store, it's ineffective because most of the organisms are dead by the time they get to you. The powder form of probiotics is the most effective. There just isn't enough in a serving of yogurt to even matter.

I took the seven-day course of 200 billion:

15859_b.jpg


Then I have been taking 100 billion (2 of these each day) per day since:

15658_b.jpg


I feel for you, Flammee. I know what you are going through is horrible, but it can get better.
 
Frostbite is really something to look out for. I am however very used to it from a number of other activities, such as snowboarding and mountaineering, we do both in very low temperatures it is mostly a face and finger issue here though.
reading your experiences is very valuable. I will not promise not to do the fresh pow thingy, but I agree that dry is better or easier to run at least.

Shoe wise I tend to stick to fivefingers. Merrels are too narrow for my feet and I really dislike the feel of a closed toebox. Vivobarefoot ra and gobi are great for days where you have to wear shoes (business meetings etc.)
the el-x is having one of the best soles I have ever walked or run, it really retains an amazing amount of feel, the upper is not perfect though. The seeya is not too bad either and I have come to really like it (for a shoe). the spyridon is my favourite off road shoe, it is great on rugged sharp terrain, where cuts and bruises would otherwise be the order of the day.

Seems we tend to go with the same amount of layers, just different materials, I have found that as long as I am moving heavy insulation is not really needed, a windprrof layer works miracles though.
Yes, the great thing about BRS is reading about each other's experiences. I've learned a lot here. I don't presume to tell you something you don't already know, but it's always good to put stuff out there. Even if the person you're directly responding to has had similar experiences, there maybe someone else reading the thread who hasn't. This has been a great thread for sharing experiences.

In any case, good luck experiment with the snow. Avoiding frostbite with face and fingers is different for me, because it involves air and wind, whereas with bare feet it's the contact with the ground that's the main concern. It can happen a lot quicker in the latter case. On the other hand, the feet are active while running, so once you reach a certain level of numbness, there's a chance you will stabilize and be able to continue to run. That threshold is what all of us have to discover by ourselves, as there seems to be a lot of variation, even among those of us with decent cold tolerances. In dry conditions my feet go through what I call "the numb-plunge." They slowly numb up, to the point where my metatarsals feel a little stiff. That's more or less my threshold. Any number than that, and it's time for me to put on the footwear.

I agree the Merrells are narrow, but I have narrow feet so they work for me. I like how truly minimal the Vapor Gloves are. I'm also a big fan of the Ras. I got two pair--brown and black--several months ago and they are my go-to shoes for casual use. It's important for me that a shoe be easy to slip on and off, as I tend to slip them off at the first chance I get.

For really bad wind, I slip my rain jacket on over the Merino wool stuff. It's not as breathable, but with a lot of wind, who cares, right?

I wish I could speak a Scandinavian language. My grandfather was born in a small Minnesotan town where everyone spoke Norwegian and learned English in school. My mom could still understand it, but the language has died in my generation. I love the way Nordic languages sound, so melodic.

Pink is good, blue / purple is a warning, white means you have gone too far.

Again, it's different for hikers. We tend to keep a close eye on our feet which is something you runners don't have the luxury of doing. Interestingly, I find boggy and wet ground in moorland and heaths harder than snow. Probably because of the immersion factor.

What I have learned (the hard way), is NOT to warm my feet up too quickly if they get too cold. It's agony!
I don't think I've ever gone through the blue/purple stage! My toes are either red/pink or, like the time I got frostnip, white.

I agree wet ground/grass can be killer, worse that wet asphalt.

And yah, after a cold run, I need about 10-15 minutes of warm-up before I can jump in the shower.
 
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Yes, the great thing about BRS is reading about each other's experiences. I've learned a lot here. I don't presume to tell you something you don't already know, but it's always good to put stuff out there. Even if the person you're directly responding to has had similar experiences, there maybe someone else reading the thread who hasn't. This has been a great thread for sharing experiences.
Exactly... I have picked up a lot of stuff from the responses so far, it is about all of us learning from eachother and BRS seems a very good place for just that.

In any case, good luck experiment with the snow. Avoiding frostbite with face and fingers is different for me, because it involves air and wind, whereas with bare feet it's the contact with the ground that's the main concern. It can happen a lot quicker in the latter case. On the other hand, the feet are active while running, so once you reach a certain level of numbness, there's a chance you will stabilize and be able to continue to run. That threshold is what all of us have to discover by ourselves, as there seems to be a lot of variation, even among those of us with decent cold tolerances. In dry conditions my feet go through what I call "the numb-plunge." They slowly numb up, to the point where my metatarsals feel a little stiff. That's more or less my threshold. Any number than that, and it's time for me to put on the footwear.
Running cold weather really is all about getting over that numbness phase, last winter I could barely run below freezing, this winter I have been able to run down to -7C so far and I getting to the point where we have so much snow that the rock situation is less troublesome. my hope is just after christmas.
I agree the Merrells are narrow, but I have narrow feet so they work for me. I like how truly minimal the Vapor Gloves are. I'm also a big fan of the Ras. I got two pair--brown and black--several months ago and they are my go-to shoes for casual use. It's important for me that a shoe be easy to slip on and off, as I tend to slip them off at the first chance I get.

For really bad wind, I slip my rain jacket on over the Merino wool stuff. It's not as breathable, but with a lot of wind, who cares, right?
The vapor glove is very much like the el-x sole wise I think, so I can understand why you like them.
I have the Ra in black leather and a Gobi in a light brown softer leather (suede, maybe?), and both have more than a year as my business shoes and by the look of them, they have another year or two in them.
Vivo really make some of the best casual use shoes for us barefoot fanatics.

I wish I could speak a Scandinavian language. My grandfather was born in a small Minnesotan town where everyone spoke Norwegian and learned English in school. My mom could still understand it, but the language has died in my generation. I love the way Nordic languages sound, so melodic.
I have read about that village I think, cannot remember the name, but it was mentioned in a Danish paper not too many years ago.
I am afraid my scandinavian is Danish from Copenhagen, which unfortunately is a rather flat and bland language compared to say Norwegian or the Danish spoken in the countryside. Upside is that most Scandinavian understand each other, even though the languages really are quite different.
 
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I once visited Stoughton (Wisconsin?), where they all claimed to have Norwegian ancestry and they served one meatball in a cup as fast food. Didn't have the heart to tell them that meatballs are more Swedish. IKEA, you know...

This is how Norwegians view the Danish language:
.
 
I once visited Stoughton (Wisconsin?), where they all claimed to have Norwegian ancestry and they served one meatball in a cup as fast food. Didn't have the heart to tell them that meatballs are more Swedish. IKEA, you know...

This is how Norwegians view the Danish language:
.
Seen it before, but as a native Dane it is hard not to love it :hilarious: