Josh McDougal is a Perfect Example of What is Wrong With High School Track

migangelo

migangelo

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Jun 5, 2010
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#1
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#4
I've read that before also a while back...I do a bit of the nose breathing thing once in a while. Today I tried to nose breath and see how fast I was completely comfortable with easy nose breathing...it was faster than I thought it would be. About an 9:00 pace in the first couple miles but it got easier as I went on and speed drifted to 8:15 pace by the end of the pavement surface.
 
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#6
It was couple of year ago when I switched to nose breathing. I did not do it consciously, I was barefoot running on asphalt and just noticed that I'm breathing entirely through my nose. Barefoot running also "ruined" my rhythmical breathing pattern, before barefooting I did two strong outhales with two foot strikes and one inhale during two next footstrikes. Barefooting ruined that because footstrikes were so much faster and there weren't such clear strike, but softer landing, so strong outhale didn't make any sense with barefoot footstriking. Clearest benefit is probably not getting so thirsty - breathing through the mouth makes your mouth dry.
 
#7
i was a fairly new runner so when i switched to min/bf i forced myself to breathe through my nose even though it was hard. it's been worth it and i can almost sprint breathing only through my nose.
 
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#8
I have just made the switch to nose breathing at the beginning of the week due mostly to trying to conserve water and also not eat as many bugs. Every run so far has been at my usual pace (4:30-5min/km). I won't be picking up the pace until Sept when the temp starts to go down. But I will be able to test out a few hill and speed workouts before then. I also noticed it is easier to drink water from my water bottle.
 
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#9
what's wrong with eating bugs? good protein and lots of them. crickets taste good!
 
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#10
Well, after reading several wikipedia articles, I'm not too sure about this anymore. Buyteko method in wikipedia: The Buteyko method is not widely supported in the medical community, in part due to the fact that research has not supported this theory that hyperventilation and hypocapnea causes disease,[3] with one review noting that there is no convincing evidence to indicate that trying to change asthmatic's carbon dioxide level is either "desirable or achievable."[5] Studies that have looked for evidence to corroborate this theory, such as looking at the carbon dioxide levels in practitioners of Buteyko, have not found this evidence, leading some to propose alternate theoretical pathways for this method to improve symptoms.[3]

Also, I would like to see some wikipedia article that reaffirms this:
When blood vessels contain oxygen with just traces of carbon dioxide, the oxygen cannot enter into the tissues. It clings to the blood.

The article seem to be too much "theory of all" -thing to be convincing. It is interesting article with several interesting points though.
 
#11
My last few runs have been increasingly nose only, with the last 2 5.5 mile runs at 100%. I feels good to me so far, but we'll see. I certainly puts my focus on my energy level / heart rate / respiratory rate. I have a hill that's about a quarter mile long that's posted as "9% grade" that may or may not be that steep, but does challenge my nose-only resolve. I also find it easier to consciously smile through my run with my mouth closed, for whatever positive feedback that might provide.
 
#12
flammee said:
Well, after reading several wikipedia articles, I'm not too sure about this anymore. Buyteko method in wikipedia: The Buteyko method is not widely supported in the medical community, in part due to the fact that research has not supported this theory that hyperventilation and hypocapnea causes disease,[3] with one review noting that there is no convincing evidence to indicate that trying to change asthmatic's carbon dioxide level is either "desirable or achievable."[5] Studies that have looked for evidence to corroborate this theory, such as looking at the carbon dioxide levels in practitioners of Buteyko, have not found this evidence, leading some to propose alternate theoretical pathways for this method to improve symptoms.[3]

Also, I would like to see some wikipedia article that reaffirms this:
When blood vessels contain oxygen with just traces of carbon dioxide, the oxygen cannot enter into the tissues. It clings to the blood.

The article seem to be too much "theory of all" -thing to be convincing. It is interesting article with several interesting points though.
Click to expand...

I hadn't really considered the above as reasons to try nose breathing...here are my reasons for trying it with the relaxing being the main idea. If any of the Buteyko stuff panned out so much the better.

1. To make running more relaxing...this one seems true so far.
2. To conserve water...still trying to test this one...need more attempts to tell for sure.
 
#13
I tried nose-only breathing on this morning's run. It started off great then at about a mile, my nose started running. Without getting too graphic, lets just say it didn't work and I went to mouth breathing. I don't if its related, but heart rate was low for entire run. I'm thinking of ways to work around the running nose (in addition to the obvious blowing of the nose).

There are several assertions in that article that I'm not sure about.
 
#14
the author doesn't seem to understand that aerobic respiration produces 1 molecule of CO2 for every molecule of O2 consumed. Using more oxygen will not deplete your carbon dioxide levels. Hyperventilation can, but heavy breathing during intense exercise is not hyperventilation. The rate of CO2 buildup is much higher the closer you are to max VO2.

That excess CO2 has to be exhaled. It is excess CO2, not oxygen debt, that causes the feeling of suffocation and needing to breathe. This allows risk-taking freedivers to increase their breath-hold limit by lowering their initial CO2 levels through hyperventilation, which is extremely dangerous because lack of oxygen itself has no conscious signs other than suddenly blacking out and drowning.

The notion that mouth-breathing is to the upper lung and nose-breathing to the lower is utter nonsense. Because it restricts air flow, nose-breathing is practical only in a relatively restful state when the movement of the chest during breathing is less noticeable. The author seems to think if the chest moves noticeably during heavy breathing, then air is only entering the upper lung .

Breath rate is controlled autonomously by the body according to metabolic factors that you mostly don't sense consciously. Consciously trying to modify that is fixing what ain't broke. It is best to do the opposite of yoga - ignore the breath. It does its job perfectly on its own without you mucking it up by bossing it around.

A standard test for obstructive pulmonary disease is to measure how much of the lungs' total volume can be exhaled in 1 second (FEV1/FVC). For my demographic, the predicted norm is about 80%. I can exhale almost all my lung volume in well under one second through my mouth, so I'm surely well above the norm. But through my nose I can barely crack the 2-second barrier, and only with enough force to fill a snot-rag. Nose-breathing during running would be a great way to simulate asthma, not treat it.
 
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#15
kozz said:
That excess CO2 has to be exhaled. It is excess CO2, not oxygen debt, that causes the feeling of suffocation and needing to breathe.
Click to expand...

I've read about this on some swim racing websites...they recommended slowing the breathing to help get rid of excess CO2 as they think it builds excess CO2 when you breath to quickly for your pace...thus they promote breathing every 3rd stroke vs every other stroke. Same idea as the article but in reverse.

kozz said:
Breath rate is controlled autonomously by the body according to metabolic factors that you mostly don't sense consciously. Consciously trying to modify that is fixing what ain't broke. It is best to do the opposite of yoga - ignore the breath. It does its job perfectly on its own without you mucking it up by bossing it around.
Click to expand...

When I nose breathed yesterday I counted the breaths per minute a couple times...it was 20 both times...the article talks about 15 breathes per minutes...I would have to slow way way down or walk to do 15 per/min...I agree I wouldn't pay much if any attention to that.

kozz said:
A standard test for obstructive pulmonary disease is to measure how much of the lungs' total volume can be exhaled in 1 second (FEV1/FVC). For my demographic, the predicted norm is about 80%. I can exhale almost all my lung volume in well under one second through my mouth, so I'm surely well above the norm. But through my nose I can barely crack the 2-second barrier, and only with enough force to fill a snot-rag. Nose-breathing during running would be a great way to simulate asthma, not treat it.
Click to expand...

That's not my experience...I don't know what asthma or obstructive pulmonary disease feels like but the difference between nose breathing and mouth breathing is not extreme at all...I'm not sure that test would be of much value for a runner in decent health...or maybe its just a difference in running intensity/speed.

Have you tried nose breathing yourself on easy effort vs speedy efforts?
 
#16
kozz said:
Nose-breathing during running would be a great way to simulate asthma, not treat it.
Click to expand...

Soooo, babies breathe wrong and indian runners are just plain stupid? ;)



In my experience nose breathing more effortless and it seems to easier to keep breathing calmer. It usually releases some snot, that's not big problem, just blow it off and remove the rest with your hand, no problem at all.

When speeding up, I usually start exhaling through the mouth, while still inhaling through the nose.
 
#17
I simply think that the design feature allowing the mouth to be opened for greater air flow when the body needs it speaks for itself. I have learned to relax my breathing consciously some while running, but I am not relaxed if I am struggling to get air through a more limited passageway when I need more than can get through. It has to have a lot to do with natural, anatomical VO2 Max and aerobic training.

With all my swimming, the ability to breath through the mouth has obvious advantages to me because of a greater volume of air needing to be inhaled above water in a shorter amount of time. FWIW, babies spend most of their time sleeping, so, yeah, nose breathing. Except when they cry. Then, they open their mouths.
 
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#19
happysongbird said:
I simply think that the design feature allowing the mouth to be opened for greater air flow when the body needs it speaks for itself. I have learned to relax my breathing consciously some while running, but I am not relaxed if I am struggling to get air through a more limited passageway when I need more than can get through. It has to have a lot to do with natural, anatomical VO2 Max and aerobic training.

With all my swimming, the ability to breath through the mouth has obvious advantages to me because of a greater volume of air needing to be inhaled above water in a shorter amount of time. FWIW, babies spend most of their time sleeping, so, yeah, nose breathing. Except when they cry. Then, they open their mouths.
Click to expand...

Its a matter of speed... a slow pace is easy to breathe thru the nose but a faster pace is not, even faster and you will use both at the same time...you have to find your cross over point. For swimming I like this http://swimsmooth.com/exhalation.html
 
#20
mokaman said:
Its a matter of speed... a slow pace is easy to breathe thru the nose but a faster pace is not, even faster and you will use both at the same time...you have to find your cross over point. For swimming I like this http://swimsmooth.com/exhalation.html
Click to expand...
Yeah, I have learned a lot from their website. I have really worked on the exhaling and know that doing it constantly is more relaxing, even if I'm working harder. There is no point for me (yet?) though where I am comfortable only getting air through my nose. Maybe different folks also have different diameter nasal passages?
 
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